CT LMR

GJTA

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I have programmed a Uniden 996XT for the Connecticut statewide P25 Phase 1 LMR system using ARC XT Pro imported from the Radio Reference database. It doesn't receive anything at all in either ID scan or ID search modes. I have left the radio on for 48 hours with the vitual contol logging enable and not a single hit. I Have verified no lockouts are on. I am physically located within easy range to more than one of the simulcast sites.

I have also programmed a Unication G5 directly from the Radio Reference data base interface to the PPS software and it works exactly as expected.

The 996XT has a number of other P25 statewide systems such as Minnesota for many years, but when I am in Connecticut, I can't get it to work here.

This has me stumped.
 

GTR8000

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I have programmed a Uniden 996XT for the Connecticut statewide P25 Phase 1 LMR system
Not sure where you got the idea that CLMRN is Phase I (FDMA), but it's a Phase II (TDMA) system, which your 996XT is not capable of decoding. There are a handful of FDMA talkgroups on that system (Stamford, mostly), everything else is TDMA.
 
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I can't get it to work here.
If you're referring to CT, it won't work.

You'll need a 996P2 or 325P2 or SDS models(or others) to receive the system.

I have a 996XT and 396XT and can confirm your findings.

Sorry.
 

GJTA

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Not sure where you got the idea that CLMRN is Phase I (FDMA), but it's a Phase II (TDMA) system, which your 996XT is not capable of decoding. There are a handful of FDMA talkgroups on that system (Stamford, mostly), everything else is TDMA.
I'm not sure where I got Phase I from, but thanks for the correction.
 

GJTA

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n1chu

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I believe wherever you read that says it’s both phase I & II is referring to the phase II system having a backwards capability with phase I systems… a nice selling point when talking about upgrading statewide or regional systems, actually very large systems to TDMA (digital-which is believed to have measurable increased performance parameters) from FDMA, (analogue). A quick explanation of how the agency can jump from the old to the new was explained to me as this; Once it’s determined an agency is moving to TDMA the new phase II backbone equipment gets installed at the dispatch and site locations right next to the older phase I equipment which is left in service until the last FDMA radio is gone. Then the swap out of all the vehicle radios begins. That may take some time. There may be manufacturing constraints where they can only supply x amount of radios at a time. Or, the agency may have budgetary constraints on how many radios the yearly budget will support, so it’s done over a period of years. The vehicle install process can take months to complete. Having a new radio system that will allow the old system to perform in the interim while all the time allowing comms between the two is a very big advantage. The process should be transparent to a dispatcher (other than the noticeable audible differences between FDMA & TDMA. I believe the TDMA audio can get compressed.)

This description of how the transitioning process works is general in nature. I’m sure there are those who know better than I. Please correct that which you believe I have gotten in error.
 

GJTA

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I believe wherever you read that says it’s both phase I & II is referring to the phase II system having a backwards capability with phase I systems… a nice selling point when talking about upgrading statewide or regional systems, actually very large systems to TDMA (digital-which is believed to have measurable increased performance parameters) from FDMA, (analogue). A quick explanation of how the agency can jump from the old to the new was explained to me as this; Once it’s determined an agency is moving to TDMA the new phase II backbone equipment gets installed at the dispatch and site locations right next to the older phase I equipment which is left in service until the last FDMA radio is gone. Then the swap out of all the vehicle radios begins. That may take some time. There may be manufacturing constraints where they can only supply x amount of radios at a time. Or, the agency may have budgetary constraints on how many radios the yearly budget will support, so it’s done over a period of years. The vehicle install process can take months to complete. Having a new radio system that will allow the old system to perform in the interim while all the time allowing comms between the two is a very big advantage. The process should be transparent to a dispatcher (other than the noticeable audible differences between FDMA & TDMA. I believe the TDMA audio can get compressed.)

This description of how the transitioning process works is general in nature. I’m sure there are those who know better than I. Please correct that which you believe I have gotten in error.
Thank you.
 

GTR8000

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I believe wherever you read that says it’s both phase I & II is referring to the phase II system having a backwards capability with phase I systems… a nice selling point when talking about upgrading statewide or regional systems, actually very large systems to TDMA (digital-which is believed to have measurable increased performance parameters) from FDMA, (analogue). A quick explanation of how the agency can jump from the old to the new was explained to me as this; Once it’s determined an agency is moving to TDMA the new phase II backbone equipment gets installed at the dispatch and site locations right next to the older phase I equipment which is left in service until the last FDMA radio is gone. Then the swap out of all the vehicle radios begins. That may take some time. There may be manufacturing constraints where they can only supply x amount of radios at a time. Or, the agency may have budgetary constraints on how many radios the yearly budget will support, so it’s done over a period of years. The vehicle install process can take months to complete. Having a new radio system that will allow the old system to perform in the interim while all the time allowing comms between the two is a very big advantage. The process should be transparent to a dispatcher (other than the noticeable audible differences between FDMA & TDMA. I believe the TDMA audio can get compressed.)

This description of how the transitioning process works is general in nature. I’m sure there are those who know better than I. Please correct that which you believe I have gotten in error.
You got a lot wrong there, unfortunately.

First of all, FDMA and TDMA are both digital when we're talking about P25. All P25 is all digital, all the time, no exceptions. I find it a bit odd that you state FDMA = analog. Not in the sense we're talking about here, no.

Secondly, TDMA doesn't require "separate equipment installation alongside the older Phase I equipment" If a P25 FDMA system is already in place, and as long as the repeaters are capable of TDMA (which nearly all modern P25 repeaters are), it's a fairly simple and straightforward software upgrade to enable TDMA functionality. Same for the subscribers. As long as the hardware is TDMA capable, you pay whatever licensing fees there are for the new functionality, and you software/firmware upgrade existing repeaters and subscribers to provision that capability.

In any event, the CLMRN is a Phase II system with the majority of talkgroups operating in TDMA mode. While the system itself is capable of "falling back" to Phase I FDMA mode, it's likely that this ability is disabled on most of the talkgroups in order to ensure maximum efficiency. As long as every subscriber in a fleet is TDMA capable, and those talkgroups are exclusive to that agency and aren't used for mutual aid/interop purposes, then there is no reason for FDMA to be allowed, as it wastes precious RF resources.
 
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n1chu

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Yes. As stated, I’m no expert. My basic premise of how upgrading from phase I to phase II is a transparent transition was my main reason for offering the example. I believe I got that correctly.

But what I really appreciate is your finding the time to correct what I have gotten wrong. If you hadn’t corrected me it’s like a piece of spinach stuck in your teeth without anyone bringing it to your attention. I wouldn’t care to continue spreading any untruths only to have to deal with some uncouth individual who, later, see’s my incorrect explanation one too many times and lays into me online! …with my only comeback Why didn’t you correct me the first time? It still come up as an embarising situation. Thanks again. Why didn’t I see your post up on the same thread? That’s where my audience was, the ones that need to see there is some info which is not so much correct…
 

n1chu

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Yes. As stated, I’m no expert. My basic premise of how upgrading from phase I to phase II is a transparent transition was my main reason for offering the example. I believe I got that correctly.

But what I really appreciate is your finding the time to correct what I have gotten wrong. If you hadn’t corrected me it’s like a piece of spinach stuck in your teeth without anyone bringing it to your attention. I wouldn’t care to continue spreading any untruths only to have to deal with some uncouth individual who, later, see’s my incorrect explanation one too many times and lays into me online! …with my only comeback Why didn’t you correct me the first time? It still come up as an embarising situation. Thanks again. Why didn’t I see your post up on the same thread? That’s where my audience was, the ones that need to see there is some info which is not so much correct… but then again, hit turns out the OP’s question was answered. He needed a different radio regardless of how things worked!
 

ems170

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Dynamic fallback i.e. an FDMA radio affiliates on a TDMA talkgroup and that talkgroup reverts to FDMA, requires additional licensing and permission settings. Talkgroups are assigned as TDMA or FDMA in the provisioning manager in this case.
 
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