Database and Web Import

[Junior08]

If this has already been suggested, please disregard but I'll post anyway. Using the database/web import with proper software is an amazing feature that this website offers, but for the database I'd like to offer 2 suggestions.

First,

Have the database admins for each state go through whats in there and maybe add an alpha tag to any frequency that is missing one? To be able to load in a large amount of frequencies with just a mouse click is nice, but once it's loaded into the software, then your scanner, and you have no idea who is transmitting because no tag shows, that seems to me to be very frustrating.

Second,

Organizing state information (non trunked) by County as opposed to town might better serve those that are looking to use the import feature for, say, a trip or vacation to a specific state. Take 1 county, put all Police in a table for that county, same with Fire and/or EMS. If you take a look at Massachusetts and go to Barnstable, Plymouth, and Norfolk Counties you will see what I mean. It serves 2 purposes. Keeps the Database up to date and makes it easier to find a certain frequency by county, and it also makes it much easier using the web import feature to better organize scanners/radios once the information is loaded into software.

I'm not an Admin, and I know this has the possibility to be a huge undertaking, but if it could be done it would truly make the database even better than it is, if that's possible?

Thoughts?

 

[mciupa]

If this has already been suggested, please disregard but I'll post anyway. Using the database/web import with proper software is an amazing feature that this website offers, but for the database I'd like to offer 2 suggestions.

First,

Have the database admins for each state go through whats in there and maybe add an alpha tag to any frequency that is missing one? To be able to load in a large amount of frequencies with just a mouse click is nice, but once it's loaded into the software, then your scanner, and you have no idea who is transmitting because no tag shows, that seems to me to be very frustrating.

Or perhaps permit the general membership to do so, similar to allowing us to tag service tags that we can now do.

Second,

Organizing state information (non trunked) by County as opposed to town might better serve those that are looking to use the import feature for, say, a trip or vacation to a specific state. Take 1 county, put all Police in a table for that county, same with Fire and/or EMS. If you take a look at Massachusetts and go to Barnstable, Plymouth, and Norfolk Counties you will see what I mean. It serves 2 purposes. Keeps the Database up to date and makes it easier to find a certain frequency by county, and it also makes it much easier using the web import feature to better organize scanners/radios once the information is loaded into software.

Good ideas
I thought I would revive this thread to allow for reconsideration of its merits.

 

[Junior08]

Thanks. I had forgotten that I even posted this!

 

[JoeyC]

I agree, I just downloaded a ton of stuff from Rhode Island and Massachusetts that didn't have Alpha Tags, so I have about 50 fire and police talkgroups and freqs tagged as "Fire Ops" or "Police Ops" and without tedious editing will not be able to differentiate. Essex County MA has a ton of towns without tags.

 

[wb0wao]

I agree, I just downloaded a ton of stuff from Rhode Island and Massachusetts that didn't have Alpha Tags, so I have about 50 fire and police talkgroups and freqs tagged as "Fire Ops" or "Police Ops" and without tedious editing will not be able to differentiate. Essex County MA has a ton of towns without tags.

This is because the actual user/use of those TG's is unknown. The TG's may be encrypted or there hasn't been enough traffic analysis done to positively determine the user(s) of that TG. A lot of times when a wide area trunked system goes online, departments can get "greedy" - for the lack of a better term. They may have had one or two frequencies in use before, but they now have the ability to have numerous TG's assigned to them. So it isn't unusual for a smaller department to have a half dozen or more TG's programmed into their radios. Larger departments do the same thing, but may get literally dozens of TG's assigned to them and programmed into their radios. And further - sometimes when the system is being set up, the radio techs will enable and test outTG's that are presently unassigned to a specific user/agency.

All of the above virtually guarantees that there will be some TG's that are used very infrequently or may not have been heard since the system was set up. It may be obvious that a TG is assigned to the ABC PD, and there may even be traffic on that TG, but it is still unknown if it is used for traffic, investigations, TAC, etc. As long as the TG is NOT encrypted and there is some traffic on it - you should be able to analyze that traffic and come up with a pretty accurate guess as to who is using it and for what fairly easily. And if the TG is encrypted, there are ways to derive what the TG is most likely utilized for, even if you cannot monitor it. Either way, as soon as you do ID the TG, submit that data and they will change the data for that TG.

Dennis

 

[Junior08]

This is because the actual user/use of those TG's is unknown. The TG's may be encrypted or there hasn't been enough traffic analysis done to positively determine the user(s) of that TG. A lot of times when a wide area trunked system goes online, departments can get "greedy" - for the lack of a better term. They may have had one or two frequencies in use before, but they now have the ability to have numerous TG's assigned to them. So it isn't unusual for a smaller department to have a half dozen or more TG's programmed into their radios. Larger departments do the same thing, but may get literally dozens of TG's assigned to them and programmed into their radios. And further - sometimes when the system is being set up, the radio techs will enable and test outTG's that are presently unassigned to a specific user/agency.

All of the above virtually guarantees that there will be some TG's that are used very infrequently or may not have been heard since the system was set up. It may be obvious that a TG is assigned to the ABC PD, and there may even be traffic on that TG, but it is still unknown if it is used for traffic, investigations, TAC, etc. As long as the TG is NOT encrypted and there is some traffic on it - you should be able to analyze that traffic and come up with a pretty accurate guess as to who is using it and for what fairly easily. And if the TG is encrypted, there are ways to derive what the TG is most likely utilized for, even if you cannot monitor it. Either way, as soon as you do ID the TG, submit that data and they will change the data for that TG.

Dennis

I still believe that there are a LOT of frequencies and/or talkgroups already in the database that could be properly identified and labeled as such. At the very least, single channel frequencies could stand to be labeled.

 

[Junior08]

I agree, I just downloaded a ton of stuff from Rhode Island and Massachusetts that didn't have Alpha Tags, so I have about 50 fire and police talkgroups and freqs tagged as "Fire Ops" or "Police Ops" and without tedious editing will not be able to differentiate. Essex County MA has a ton of towns without tags.

If it's the Rhode Island RISCON system you downloaded, there are still quite a few unknown/unconfirmed users of talkgroups for that system. If the databse here isn't as up to date as it should be, check the wiki at Your Page Title for updates.

 

[wb0wao]

I still believe that there are a LOT of frequencies and/or talkgroups already in the database that could be properly identified and labeled as such. At the very least, single channel frequencies could stand to be labeled.

I agree to a certain point - but it is users need to submit the information so it can be updated in the database by an admin. The admins most likely are not be able to monitor all of the systems that they are responsible for so they have to rely on the submitters. I know the DB admin that normally processes my non-trunked submissions lives about 100 miles north of me (at least) so he cannot monitor the stuff that I monitor here locally. He has to rely on what I submit to him, so I have to be as complete and detailed as possible to the DB listing will be accurate.

I would be willing to bet that they get submissions like "I heard Anytown PD on TG 123456" - but that doesn't tell the admin anything about what it is used for, so it is going to be listed as Police:Administration. If you know that the Anytown PD TG 123456 is used for Traffic Enforcement, then submit that with some additional info like - " Anytown PD uses TG 123456 for Traffic Enforcement Units. Units heard making traffic stops and requesting license/tag information. No other traffic dealing with routine calls, etc monitored on this TG." This would most likely result in a listing as Police:Traffic Enforcement Units. Same basic principal with discrete frequencies - if they haven't been submitted with detailed information then the admin will not be able to put detailed information about what it is used for.

The completeness and accuracy of the DB is directly dependent on the user submissions.

Dennis

 

[JoeyC]

I agree to a certain point - but it is users need to submit the information so it can be updated in the database by an admin. The admins most likely are not be able to monitor all of the systems that they are responsible for so they have to rely on the submitters. I know the DB admin that normally processes my non-trunked submissions lives about 100 miles north of me (at least) so he cannot monitor the stuff that I monitor here locally. He has to rely on what I submit to him, so I have to be as complete and detailed as possible to the DB listing will be accurate.

I would be willing to bet that they get submissions like "I heard Anytown PD on TG 123456" - but that doesn't tell the admin anything about what it is used for, so it is going to be listed as Police:Administration. If you know that the Anytown PD TG 123456 is used for Traffic Enforcement, then submit that with some additional info like - " Anytown PD uses TG 123456 for Traffic Enforcement Units. Units heard making traffic stops and requesting license/tag information. No other traffic dealing with routine calls, etc monitored on this TG." This would most likely result in a listing as Police:Traffic Enforcement Units. Same basic principal with discrete frequencies - if they haven't been submitted with detailed information then the admin will not be able to put detailed information about what it is used for.

The completeness and accuracy of the DB is directly dependent on the user submissions.

Dennis

I was referring to all the KNOWN freqs that have vague Alpha Tags. For instance look at Essex County MA and Middlesex County MA

When you download these counties conventional freqs you get alot of freqs with the alpha tag "Police Ops" or "Fire Ops" and no indication of which township (although known when you look at the DB). When you have a string of 50 of them lined up in the scanner, what good is the alpha tag feature?

 

[wb0wao]

OK I see what you are referring to... yep those do need cleaning up a lot. Someone should submit a change submission to them to the DB admin. IIRC the alpha tags are limited to 12 characters for compatability with older scanners.