Database Change Reports ???

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OCO

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I'm quoting Lou from another thread - didn't want to hijack that one..
Well to be honest, there is no ongoing expense necessary. Those folks who think that are the folks that just like to "churn" the stuff in their scanners on a continuing basis. Whereas I can't agree more that software makes programming the scanners a lot easier, the download is just a convenience. Even if you used if for an initial download, the maintenance of your particular setup is better done without downloading. When you download, you get whatever is in the DB at the moment. This means you lose any alpha tags that you have customized or channels that you may have added that are not in the DB. This depends on what software and radio you have, but generally downloading is good for when you need to set something new up, but not so much after that.
Lou - I'm sure that all the HP1 owners would thoroughly agree with this entire statement, especially the part I put in bold.. The "weakest link" (as I see it) in the new scanner programming paradigm as presented by the HP1 and the GRE-800 is that there are no decent database change reports available. If I create a number of Favorites from the HP1 database, they're no longer accurate as soon as the next week's database download is finished, if there are any changes in that particular area. Trying to determine what has changed so I can edit the Favorite then becomes an issue of trying to compare the current DB info with the Favorites on a line by line basis. If a RR report could be generated, for instance by System, that showed adds, deletes, changes within a date range, with the actual data that has changed being shown, it'd be a big step forward. Obviously the ultimate in the HP1 world would for Favorites to be actual DB objects that inherit changes from the parent DB - but that's a Uniden issue.....

Any thoughts on this?;)
 

fmon

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I'm quoting Lou from another thread - didn't want to hijack that one..


Lou - I'm sure that all the HP1 owners would thoroughly agree with this entire statement, especially the part I put in bold.. The "weakest link" (as I see it) in the new scanner programming paradigm as presented by the HP1 and the GRE-800 is that there are no decent database change reports available. If I create a number of Favorites from the HP1 database, they're no longer accurate as soon as the next week's database download is finished, if there are any changes in that particular area. Trying to determine what has changed so I can edit the Favorite then becomes an issue of trying to compare the current DB info with the Favorites on a line by line basis. If a RR report could be generated, for instance by System, that showed adds, deletes, changes within a date range, with the actual data that has changed being shown, it'd be a big step forward. Obviously the ultimate in the HP1 world would for Favorites to be actual DB objects that inherit changes from the parent DB - but that's a Uniden issue.....

Any thoughts on this?;)
The first day of a change in a database page the change is indicated in green. For the next 6 days the change is in yellow.

Set your Home page with your favorite systems. These will also reflect these two colors as they go through changes.

The PSR-800 has an option for user to select "only new changes" when bringing new library to scanner SD card.
 
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OCO

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The first day of a change in a database page the change is indicated in green. For the next 6 days the change is in yellow.

Set your Home page with your favorite systems. These will also reflect these two colors as they go through changes.

The PSR-800 has an option for user to select "only new changes" when bringing new library to scanner SD card.
FMON:
Yes, my home page is set up with the large systems I monitor..I don't really consider this (see attached) to be something usable. What Talkgoups? What Tags? I monitor at least three very large systems that are dynamic. The summary only lists the last 30 changes for a system; when the DB admin is doing changes, they can do more than that in one day. Take a minute and slide through this report and tell me what has been updated, what is new and (oh wait, you can't list what's been deleted). I'm glad GRE saw ahead....maybe the next HP1 software/firmware change for the RR V9 changes that UPMan just mentioned will follow their lead. I can't believe this type of report wouldn't be handy regardless of scanner in use.

I don't know what RR is using for its DBMS; in my pre-retirement employment, every management system had a process for flagging changes, either within each record, or with audit trails. Change reports weren't any more difficult than any of the other ones.....
 

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fmon

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The PSR-800 has an option for user to select "only new changes" when bringing new library to scanner SD card.
Oops, that would be user to select "only new changes" prior to bringing new library to EZ Scan Software ready to send to SD card. This keeps software in same format (users settings) with only new changes requiring editing to user preference--e.g., light/audio/alpha tagging etc.

BTW, your MPSCS report has 9 days of changes by Thunderbolt which covers more then the weekly new data in RR library. Granted, it does not cover any losses from DB.
 

loumaag

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You see, this is exactly what I am talking about. Churning.

If you want to know exactly what TGs were updated or added in a TRS, look at the page on the site. What Frank was saying is that if you put them in your "MyTRSs" on the home page you can see if they were altered. Click on the link and look at the page, the changes are highlighted, except for deletions of course (you can't highlight what isn't there.)

As for the HP-1 & GRE-800 (and now I guess the Pro-18), each has it's own problems and ways around them. In the quote you grabbed from another topic, I was referring to downloading, via software, into programmable scanners; not specifically those that get all their data from RR primarily. If you are concerned about changes in things that you monitor, then you are going to have to keep up with what changes on at least a weekly basis to know what was changed using the method I outlined in the above paragraph.

Those highlights are exactly what you refer to in using the flags. Reports, per se, would still have to be limited in scope, otherwise the site would be open to massive amounts of both processor time and bandwidth use with people running reports for things way in the past. The solution is, if you are that concerned about daily changes, then check daily for changes and key them in by hand.
 
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If the change reporting process were granular and automated, then users would not have to "run" any reports. We could just download the ones that are pertinent to us.
 

OCO

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Lou:
My issue with the linked report is that it's very easy to overlook a change on a large (MPSCS, Consumers Energy) type system. My fault for not being clear about that.

I can understand not wanting to highlight changes for a long period of time, but what's a user supposed to do if they miss the 7 day window for catching a change? Also - why isn't it important to know about deletes also? I'm wondering if adding the last changed date to the -6 and -7 canned reports would be a solution, at least for trunked systems . It would supply everything except deprecated sites/frequencies.

I'd also comment that the PSR800/HomePatrol/Pro 18 issues aren't that much different than the traditional radios - at least with the HP1, the need to hand modify Favorites to avoid entirely recreating them parallels the issues created by "churning" that you mention. Actually I don't need to have every stinking change implemented daily, but I would like to have the system configuration reflect the actual systems at some point, even if I miss a weekly update from Uniden.

And last - sorry if I broke a rule in quoting what I thought was rather pertinent to the issue I wanted to raise. I didn't want to get busted for thread hijacking and I did give proper attribution to the source. I do appreciate your and other replies. I'd be interested to hear any one else's solutions to my issue..
 

loumaag

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Okay, let's clarify a couple of things, lest folks reading this get the wrong idea.

There is no change report per se. The highlighting, on the site, and the history are the only two items available when looking at the site.

I never said deleted items weren't important, I merely said you can't highlight something that isn't there.

Now, if you have an idea of how you want a change report, why don't you apply for an API key and write your own? The last change date is available via the web service API, indeed the programming software folks could make that data available when you access the data through your favorite software. I am not sure how long that "last changed" element has been available in the API, but it is there now.
 

OCO

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Lou:
You're right, its not a change report, but it's what we're pointed at whenever the question is raised about finding changes to the DB. I originally picked up on your thoughts concerning "churn" because avoiding full reprogramming of a scanner would require change information to be available. I spoke up because I didn't feel what was being made available (highlighted lines that exist for seven days) was as good as it could get. Since I don't write code, (don't build scanners either) and the official RadioReference response to me is pretty clear, I guess we can just agree to have different opinions on the need. Again, thanks for responding....
 
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