Defund Encryption Update

657fe2

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Hello everyone, The California Legislature has recessed for the year and there is no Bill restricting Encryption. Their was just too much craziness this year. Their are literally hundreds of bills being acted upon this year plus alot of members are up for reelection and that is priority. I will get an early start next year and we will see where it goes. Alot of interest in Police Reform measures and if Dems do really well next month, things could get crazy in ways I have never seen before. God only knows.
 

norcalscan

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I happened to see a memo dated 10/12/20 from CA DOJ CJIS that had wording in it requiring all PII information in CLETS to no longer be shared in the clear by 12/31/2020. The solution was either encryption, or policy in place that demonstrates PII will not be shared over the air in the clear. If an agency can't comply by 12/31/20, the Chief or Sheriff needs to explain why, and have a date of when they'll be compliant. I think you can find it google "CJIS info bulletin" and look for recent date.

If so, it is quite the sticky quandary of the growing demands to protect an innocent citizen's personally identifiable information (get pulled over, your name, dob, CADL gets read, facebook neighborhood gossip groups share the fun), but also growing demands of transparency to our department day-to-day operations. :unsure:
 

norcalscan

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"Defund Encryption"?

Good luck with that. Encryption is included with most digital radios now. There's no funding involved in most cases.
And, as stated above, DOJ is pushing for it.
most “included” free encryption, if the /\/\ bill of goods is decent enough to even include that, is ADP, which is unacceptable to DHS. DHS is threatening federal grant monies to agencies not using AES256, the “P25 standard.”

and of course AES256 line item to any radio vendor is a cool easy couple of $million to major agencies, high 6 digits for smaller systems.

I wonder how much was spent lobbying any of this. Easy tax dollar pocket change for vendors.
 

es93546

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I happened to see a memo dated 10/12/20 from CA DOJ CJIS that had wording in it requiring all PII information in CLETS to no longer be shared in the clear by 12/31/2020. The solution was either encryption, or policy in place that demonstrates PII will not be shared over the air in the clear. If an agency can't comply by 12/31/20, the Chief or Sheriff needs to explain why, and have a date of when they'll be compliant. I think you can find it google "CJIS info bulletin" and look for recent date.

If so, it is quite the sticky quandary of the growing demands to protect an innocent citizen's personally identifiable information (get pulled over, your name, dob, CADL gets read, facebook neighborhood gossip groups share the fun), but also growing demands of transparency to our department day-to-day operations. :unsure:
What is "PII?"
 

mmckenna

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most “included” free encryption, if the /\/\ bill of goods is decent enough to even include that, is ADP, which is unacceptable to DHS. DHS is threatening federal grant monies to agencies not using AES256, the “P25 standard.”
I'm preparing to purchase a number of Harris XL-200P's and M's. Single Key AES and DES encryption has been included in the quotes as a $0 charge line item.
Motorola wanted $300+ for AES.
 

Ravenfalls

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I'm preparing to purchase a number of Harris XL-200P's and M's. Single Key AES and DES encryption has been included in the quotes as a $0 charge line item.
Motorola wanted $300+ for AES.
I prefer the software & functionality in Harris over Motorola. What other radio can swap files on the fly? Most people are getting Motorola due to cost. Figured it just matter of time before USCG Aux goes ENC.

Fully agreed on using single key, makes life simple for who we share with.
 

mmckenna

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I prefer the software & functionality in Harris over Motorola. What other radio can swap files on the fly? Most people are getting Motorola due to cost.
I got quotes from a few different manufacturers. Motorola APX-8000 was significantly more expensive than the XL-200P. After a lot of years of dealing with awful Motorola service shops/support in my area, I'm certainly not interested in paying more for Motorola. The brand name doesn't mean anything to me, and certainly not several thousand dollars worth.
 

chrismol1

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You dont think theres radios that run encryption or digital on low band, they do
 

mmckenna

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How will this work with low band. CHP for example.
Likely they'll run licenses over their mobile terminals, as they do now. But usually these rules have some loopholes that allow agencies to keep doing what they are doing without major upgrades to equipment.

You dont think theres radios that run encryption or digital on low band, they do
CHP is switching to Kenwood/EFJohnson for their radios, including the low band decks. The NX-5600H is analog/NXDN only. I doubt we'll ever see NXDN used by CHP, too much hardware to replace at the base station/repeater sites.
 

657fe2

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In my area, it is extremely rare to hear police writing a ticket while writing down the information from the License. This is not 1985, LEA's have MDT's. CHP, LASD, etc dont even radio in traffic stops and ped stops its all MDT.

This reminds me of a story a couple of years ago; Riverside County went to encrypted PSEC while Coachella cities went to encrypted ERICA. Palm Springs media were given access to PSEC and ERICA. Bureaucrats in ERICA cities were not content to shut out the public, they wanted to shut out the media too, and came up with this nonsense about protecting peoples info.
Some bureaucrats love secrecy like Tommy Chong loves Bongs, but the death of George Floyd may have changed everything.
 

scannerboy02

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The time for a public safety communications lobby is now.

How many people would be willing to help fund the creation of an organized lobbying group?
 

es93546

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Here in the eastern Sierra there is a lot of running 10-27's, 10-28's and 10-29's over the air. I think there are a lot of areas where the CHP's MDT's don't connect. There are a lot of cell phone dead areas as well. The counties are going to have trouble complying, whether encryption or MDT's are the solution. They don't have the money to replace their systems, which they did for the narrowband directive, but again in just 8 years? The cost of MDT's and the large area of blind spots seem to kill that option. I hope this doesn't drive encryption as being able to hear law enforcement in rural areas is important for getting information we otherwise won't get. Snowstorms, fires, wind events, flooding and similar have consequences for those who live in small towns and away from towns. Without scanners there isn't a 24 hour a day, breaking news organization or broadcast system in place. We can get some gnarly weather up here.
 

wa8pyr

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most “included” free encryption, if the /\/\ bill of goods is decent enough to even include that, is ADP, which is unacceptable to DHS. DHS is threatening federal grant monies to agencies not using AES256, the “P25 standard.”
You're partly correct. There's no threat; to use Federal grant monies, the quote has to include either AES, or no encryption at all. ADP and DES are not acceptable.

You're incorrect about why Moto quotes AES; the standard quote from Motorola for the last couple of years has included single-key AES256, with DES and ADP available as options. As it was told to my by our Moto rep, the driving factor behind the Moto decision to do single-key AES as the standard was the fact that most of the other major manufacturers were already doing it because of the Federal grant requirements. All of the quotes I get show single-key AES as a $0.00 or $0.01 item. The big bucks start adding up when they add "multi key encryption" to the quote; most agencies I work with are perfectly happy with single key.

Harris often includes ADP (officially known as "ARC4") free in addition to the single key AES, but you can only use one or the other unless you purchase the multi-key option, which makes the ADP/ARC4 basically pointless.
 

mmckenna

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The time for a public safety communications lobby is now.

How many people would be willing to help fund the creation of an organized lobbying group?
There are several public safety lobbying groups, APCO is a big one.
I think what you meant to say is "scanner hobbyist lobby".

I've worked on/built a number of public safety radio systems, and never once has anyone ever expressed any concern at all for what hobbyists want.
I understand wanting to hear radio traffic, nothing wrong with that. Problem is, unless you get enough elected officials on your side, you won't have much success. Hobbyists are a pretty cheap bunch as it is. Lobbying takes a lot of money to grease the palms of politicians. Police officer unions and large manufacturers have a lot more money than the hobby groups will ever have.
Best approach would be to contact your representatives and make your case. But you'll need more than "I really want to listen to my local agency".
 

WX4JCW

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If you are a hobbyist, most of the Sysadmins and Techs on here are pretty much here for their own entertainment, they definitely make fun of hobbyists on other forums (Including several regular posters on here), but with this changing political climate that is anti-public safety, well who knows what might happen, and don't think the media is the hobbyist friend either because if they make a big enough noise, they get access, but you can't go into a representative's office and make half-cocked conspiratorial accusations, get a plan together, get together and figure out how to strategically attack the problem politically, just keep in mind that it's all political all down the line, you just have to shake the tree and make the right branch nervous, who knows maybe a compromise solution can be reached
 
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