DFW Area Mutual Aid

[blantonl]

Let's chat about DFW Mutual Aid between different police and fire departments.

I'm very aware of the Law IO channels on NTIRN and GMRS - they are used pretty extensively.

What about fire department mutual aid? When I lived here 25 years ago, 154.28 was used quite a bit for fire department mutual aid dispatches between Dallas, Garland, Highland Park, University Park and others. How is mutual aid done now between Dallas and these departments? The Fire IO channels on GMRS and NTIRN aren't really used except for special events.

For instance, Highland Park and UP both aren't in a situation to run a full structure fire without Mutual Aid from each other and Dallas, so how is mutual aid dispatched between those agencies?

What about DFW Airport? What IO talkgroups are used for mutual aid responses to DFW airport from the surrounding agencies?

 

[BenScan]

Grapevine and Euless often go to DFW Airport on EMS calls. In the the past, they primarily used NE Airport 1 on NTIRN, but recently they've been using DFW IO 1 on the DFW system. I don't pay close attention to QuadCities, but in the past there has been a Dallas Fire Rescue patch on occasion.

Hurst, Euless, Bedford do a lot of automatic mutual aid with each other, and they'll respond on which ever city's channels they're going to.
For all of the departments that Fort Worth Fire dispatches, they're assigned to a FWFD channel. Same for Tarrant County Fire dispatch, they use the Tarrant County Fire channels. NRHW and NETCOM are the same with their channels.

I can't say that I've paid too close attention to the particular cities in Dallas County that you mentioned. However, SWR FD operate similar to what I described above.

 

[blantonl]

Perfect, Thanks Ben.

I'll be interested if someone can chime in on the Dallas County side.

I'm trying to get to the bottom of some of the Dallas County Mutual Aid responses and how they might fill in coverage gaps where stuff is encrypted (especially on the fire side). Good news is that the current law enforcement mutual aid situation is helpful during incidents (regarding encryption if you know what I mean)

 

[blantonl]

Also, what I'm essentially doing is to identify frequencies and talkgroups in the metroplex that are used for major incidents.

Pursuits and major LE incidents are on the Law IO channels (NTIRN and GMRS)

Fire seems to be a little more unknown.

I also know there is an interoperability layer on the Fed side with a few conventional repeaters.

Is there any other interop on conventional channels, like the statewide VCall, Ucall, 7/8call etc?

 

[BenScan]

Can't say I've heard much on the V/U Interops in the Metroplex, more so outside. I believe most FDs have their neighboring departments channels, so often there isn't as much of a need for fire IOs. Of course a larger incident that draws in resources from farther away will likely need/use IO channels.

 

[Linn]

Also, what I'm essentially doing is to identify frequencies and talkgroups in the metroplex that are used for major incidents.

Pursuits and major LE incidents are on the Law IO channels (NTIRN and GMRS)

Fire seems to be a little more unknown.

I also know there is an interoperability layer on the Fed side with a few conventional repeaters.

Is there any other interop on conventional channels, like the statewide VCall, Ucall, 7/8call etc?

NTIRN fire agencies have not embraced the use of IO channels to the same extent as law enforcement. Fire departments tend to communicate directly with one another and typically conduct mutual aid operations on the primary channel of the requesting agency.


This led to a brief issue recently when Fort Worth Fire responded to a shooting and requested mutual aid from Crowley Fire. Crowley was initially assigned to a channel that no longer exists due to recent reprogramming of Fort Worth Fire’s radios. The issue was quickly resolved, but it highlighted a potential gap in coordination.

One of the key reasons the NTIRN IO plan was designed the way it was is to minimize the risk of such situations—where an agency reprograms its radios without notifying mutual aid partners or ensuring their radios are updated accordingly.

 

[Harold]

NTIRN fire agencies have not embraced the use of IO channels to the same extent as law enforcement. Fire departments tend to communicate directly with one another and typically conduct mutual aid operations on the primary channel of the requesting agency.


This led to a brief issue recently when Fort Worth Fire responded to a shooting and requested mutual aid from Crowley Fire. Crowley was initially assigned to a channel that no longer exists due to recent reprogramming of Fort Worth Fire’s radios. The issue was quickly resolved, but it highlighted a potential gap in coordination.

One of the key reasons the NTIRN IO plan was designed the way it was is to minimize the risk of such situations—where an agency reprograms its radios without notifying mutual aid partners or ensuring their radios are updated accordingly.

Great job Linn. Just want to add that when the FD, at least Fort Worth, does use an IO channel it is usually Fire IO 3. In fact they are on it right now, with a Structure Fire in Haltom City.

 

[blantonl]

Careflight dispatch on the Megahertz system seems like a good indicator of a major incident in the DFW area (talkgroup 8003).

Any other good ones that you guys can think of?

 

[Harold]

NTIRN fire agencies have not embraced the use of IO channels to the same extent as law enforcement. Fire departments tend to communicate directly with one another and typically conduct mutual aid operations on the primary channel of the requesting agency.


This led to a brief issue recently when Fort Worth Fire responded to a shooting and requested mutual aid from Crowley Fire. Crowley was initially assigned to a channel that no longer exists due to recent reprogramming of Fort Worth Fire’s radios. The issue was quickly resolved, but it highlighted a potential gap in coordination.

One of the key reasons the NTIRN IO plan was designed the way it was is to minimize the risk of such situations—where an agency reprograms its radios without notifying mutual aid partners or ensuring their radios are updated accordingly.

Just because its Friday Night Lights I'm going to ask this question. Why are so many PDs and ISDs working their Football Games and other events on the Law IO Channels, and leaving the Event IO channels completely unused. I know Fort Worth manages the Law IO channels. Who manages the other IO Groups.

 

[BenScan]

My guess is that there are officers from outside agencies working overtime at games, and their radios may not have the local event channels for a particular stadium. Also, I believe the event IO channels are for Fort Worth specifically.

 

[Linn]

Just because its Friday Night Lights I'm going to ask this question. Why are so many PDs and ISDs working their Football Games and other events on the Law IO Channels, and leaving the Event IO channels completely unused. I know Fort Worth manages the Law IO channels. Who manages the other IO Groups.

You are partially correct about Fort Worth managing the Law IO channels. They handle assignments for in progress incidents. Preplanned events are managed by a member of the NTIRN interop committee. That person also coordinates the roll call tests.

Ben's answer about the event IO channels is correct. Those are used internally by Fort Worth. Sporting events are on IO channels for the reason Ben said. People from multiple jurisdictions as well as fire/EMS work the games.

 

[blantonl]

Its interesting. For SMU football games they run all Fire/EMS on an I/O channel on GMRS for medical responses, but for Law Enforcement, SMU PD, HP, UP, Dallas County SO, and Dallas County colleges PD all operate on their own channels. lol.

• SMU PD is DMR RC4 encrypted on UHF (but on demand patched in the clear on GMRS)
• University Park PD is AES encrypted on GMRS with their own encryption key
• University Park Fire/EMS is AES encrypted on GMRS with their own separate encryption key
• Highland Park DPS (shared pd, Fire, EMS) AES encrypted on GMRS with their own separate encryption key
• GMRS Fire IO-8 is used for shared EMS units for the game.
• Dallas Colleges is in the clear on what is presumably their own event talkgroup on NTIRN (36560).

so, there are 4 separate encryption keys in use, one encrypted talkgroup patched to GMRS in the clear, and only what seems to be some interop in use for medical calls.

sigh. LOL.

 

[IAmSixNine]

Man that SMU game stuff seems like a mess off coordination.

I know a few months ago Cedar Hill was sent to Grand Prairie on a house fire and they assigned Fire IO 3 I think on the NTIRN system.

 

[blantonl]

Man that SMU game stuff seems like a mess off coordination.

I know a few months ago Cedar Hill was sent to Grand Prairie on a house fire and they assigned Fire IO 3 I think on the NTIRN system.

The SMU games seem to work just fine. SMU PD handles the majority of everything.

But, it is kind of a Gordian Knot of interoperability.

I mean, put all law enforcement on a single law IO channel, so that UP PD, HP PD, SMU PD, Dallas Colleges PD, TX DPS, and presumably DPD as well are on all the same page. That could be on GMRS or NTIRN - all those agencies use both systems. In fact, because GMRS exists, most Dallas County agencies except for Irving use GMRS as a sort of interop overlay. Dallas police units come up on GMRS all the time unprompted, and a LOT of north Dallas police units monitor GMRS on their own volition.

UP Fire and the medical CP is already on GMRS Fire IO-8, so that's at least a good start.

 

[BrokenCircuit]

I hear a lot of stuff between DFR boats and Rockwall Fire on GMRS I/O-3 when I'm down that way. Also hearing on occasion activity on 700 Mutual Aid in and around Kaufman Co. On rare occasion in Collin Co. Collin keeps a Temporary repeater on 8Call90 but I haven't heard it radio checked in a long time.

While Richardson was transitioning to their new system a month or so ago they were doing a BUNCH of mass causality training on Plano Fire Richardson M/A group. That was all ITC!

 

[IAmSixNine]

To add clarification to what @BrokenCircuit mentioned. The GMRS I/O 3 he is referring to is the Law I/O 3 channel, not the Fire I/O 3 channel.
For what ever reason when the DFR fire boat is assigned on the lake they use Law I/O 3.

 

[BrokenCircuit]

Thanks 69, I should have clarified that better.

To my knowledge no one has dug into this radio system: FCC Callsign WRWY931 (Dallas County Hospital District) which might be essential during the upcoming sports event that I think your trying to prepare for.

 

[Russell]

To my knowledge no one has dug into this radio system: FCC Callsign WRWY931 (Dallas County Hospital District) which might be essential during the upcoming sports event that I think your trying to prepare for.

That's interesting. You'd think they just join NTIRN.

 

[KevinC]

Thanks 69, I should have clarified that better.

To my knowledge no one has dug into this radio system: FCC Callsign WRWY931 (Dallas County Hospital District) which might be essential during the upcoming sports event that I think your trying to prepare for.

Analog trunked?

 

[BrokenCircuit]

Analog trunked?

Its Dallas County Health department ... Go figure!