DMR flavors

[maus92]

I am new to DMR since there is very little in range of my office, but two users are receivable. One is a shopping mall; the other a community medical center. Bother are decodable using DSD+ FL and SDRTrunk, and both *seem* to use 2-slots. But I'm a bit confused whether they are DMR conventional, or part of a trunked system of sorts. Both users are licensed for multiple frequencies; the mall 2 and the medical center has 3 frequencies (also two more sites on the license.). The mall's active channel stays quiet except when a user keys up, the I hear the voice and can see their tgids. There is also some data the shows at the end of the transmission showing "idle" and "CC=10." The hospital system seems to have two active frequencies, and one inactive frequency. One of the active freqs seems to be carrying all the traffic, while the other only sends 4-5 second data bursts every 10 seconds or so. The active frequency also sends data bursts in the same pattern when idle. A data string on both mentions "CC=1." Both systems are licensed as IG. Any insight is appreciated.

 

[LD723]

In the event log window on the very bottom left if it says something other than dmr like con+, cap+, TIII, etc then it's apart of a trunked system. If it just says dmr it's probably just conventional

 

[slicerwizard]

Sounds like Cap+. Post a screen grab of the console and event log windows.

 

[sonm10]

Idle data also suggests conventional networked

 

[maus92]

Here are a few screen shots:





The vc window is showing the tail of the "data burst" seen every 10 seconds or so. Occasionally there is voice traffic, and you will see the slot and tg assigned to the call.

 

[maus92]

For reference, here is a screen shot of the other active channel, although I have not heard any voice traffic on the frequency. The system itself isn't very busy from what I have observed, but there seems to be other frequencies in use that are probably an in-building system that I can't receive. My mission during the holiday break is to find out, lol. Anyway, you can see the regular data pulses on 452.000; 462.325 also has the pulses when there is no voice traffic.

 

[maus92]

Finally, this is the batch file I use to start dsd - any suggestions for modification? I'm only using one RTL atm; I'm pretty sure I need to run another if this system is actually trunked as the licensed frequencies are 462.325; 452.000; and 451.300.

@echo off

start FMP24 -o20002 -g28.0 -P-0.1 -f462.325
timeout 3
start DSDPlus -rv -Pwav -fr -1  -i20002 -v3 >>dmr.log

 

[boatbod]

DMR BS mode (repeater, no trunking) will have steady-state transmission on both timeslots if one or other timeslot is active.
DMR Simplex (user to user, no repeater) will have TDMA transmission on one timeslot or another while active.
TRBO Cap+ will transmit much like BS mode when active, but when idle you'll see periodic bursts identifying the "rest" channel.
TRBO Con+ has a full-time control channel
Tier III has a full-time control channel

Sounds like you might be seeing a Cap+ system or perhaps a BS mode repeater.

 

[maus92]

Thanks - what I am not seeing is any reference to another frequency or channel number in the data flying by in the VC window. I've backed up to look at the voice grants, but it's basic slot, tg, and rid info, aka no routing / reference to another channel. Granted I have no idea how Cap+ (or DMR) works beyond the most basic concepts, lol.

Here's a snippet of the vc-dsdplus.event log:

2021/12/29 13:23:10 DSD+ 2.368 / Fast Lane Release
2021/12/29 13:23:10 []
2021/12/29 13:23:10 P25 data loaded; 2 networks, 9 sites, 27 channels
2021/12/29 13:23:10 DMR/MotoTRBO decoding enabled
2021/12/29 13:23:10 FMPx link established
2021/12/29 13:24:35 Group call; TG=100 RID=132 Slot=1
2021/12/29 13:24:42 Group call; TG=100 RID=132 Slot=1 2s
2021/12/29 13:24:48 Group call; TG=100 RID=137 Slot=1 1s
2021/12/29 13:24:50 Group call; TG=100 RID=132 Slot=1 3s
2021/12/29 13:25:06 TXI Group call; TG=100 RID=101 Slot=1
2021/12/29 13:27:17 TXI Group call; TG=100 RID=101 Slot=1 8s
2021/12/29 13:27:26 Group call; TG=100 RID=137 Slot=1 4s
2021/12/29 13:33:33 TXI Group call; TG=100 [Security] RID=101 Slot=1 2s
2021/12/29 13:33:38 Group call; TG=100 [Security] RID=137 Slot=1 1s
2021/12/29 13:33:40 TXI Group call; TG=100 [Security] RID=101 Slot=1 3s
2021/12/29 13:33:46 Group call; TG=100 [Security] RID=137 Slot=1 3s
2021/12/29 13:35:40 Group call; TG=200 RID=2605 Slot=2 4s
2021/12/29 13:35:45 Group call; TG=200 RID=2606 Slot=2 1s
2021/12/29 13:37:45 P25 data loaded; 2 networks, 9 sites, 27 channels
2021/12/29 13:39:58 Group call; TG=200 RID=2605 Slot=2 4s
2021/12/29 13:40:03 Group call; TG=200 RID=2606 Slot=2
2021/12/29 13:45:01 Group call; TG=200 RID=2606 Slot=2 6s
2021/12/29 13:45:10 Group call; TG=200 RID=2603 Slot=2 1s
2021/12/29 13:45:10 TXI Group call; TG=100 [Security] RID=101 Slot=1
2021/12/29 13:45:17 Group call; TG=200 RID=2605 Slot=2 1s
2021/12/29 13:45:54 Group call; TG=200 RID=2606 Slot=2 2s
2021/12/29 13:46:01 Group call; TG=200 RID=2603 Slot=2 1s
2021/12/29 13:46:03 Group call; TG=200 RID=2606 Slot=2 6s
2021/12/29 13:46:12 Group call; TG=200 RID=2603 Slot=2 1s
2021/12/29 13:46:16 Group call; TG=200 RID=2606 Slot=2 1s
2021/12/29 13:46:19 Group call; TG=200 RID=2603 Slot=2 4s
2021/12/29 13:46:25 Group call; TG=200 RID=2605 Slot=2 2s
2021/12/29 13:47:07 Group call; TG=200 RID=2603 Slot=2 3s
2021/12/29 13:47:11 Group call; TG=200 RID=2606 Slot=2 4s
2021/12/29 13:47:16 Group call; TG=200 RID=2603 Slot=2 1s
2021/12/29 13:47:47 Group call; TG=100 [Security] RID=137 Slot=1 4s
2021/12/29 13:47:59 TXI Group call; TG=100 [Security] RID=101 Slot=1 5s
2021/12/29 13:48:34 TXI Group call; TG=100 [Security] RID=101 Slot=1 2s
2021/12/29 13:48:40 Group call; TG=100 [Security] RID=137 Slot=1 4s
2021/12/29 13:48:49 TXI Group call; TG=100 [Security] RID=101 Slot=1 5s
2021/12/29 13:48:56 Group call; TG=100 [Security] RID=137 Slot=1



What is interesting about this system is when a patient hits a panic button, an automated voice announces the alert and a room number every ten seconds or so.

 

[boatbod]

With DMR it's the LCN that defines the channel. The mapping of LCN to frequency+slot is configured into the radio during deployment and typically can only be learned by observation rather than channel, base freq + step size that is used in P25.

 

[BM82557]

Covered below is a handy utility for DMR TIII systems --

LCN to Frequency calculator for DMR TIII

Seems like a few people are interested in this calculator I mentioned in a post a few days ago. Here it is. This is only for calculating LCNs for DMR TIII. It will not work for CAP+,CAP MAX, CON+ or any other system. This 'DMR_TIII_LCN_Freq_calc' is provided 'as is'. - This is just a basic...

forums.radioreference.com

 

[maus92]

With DMR it's the LCN that defines the channel. The mapping of LCN to frequency+slot is configured into the radio during deployment and typically can only be learned by observation rather than channel, base freq + step size that is used in P25.

I don't see any reference to LCN in the decoded data stream either. I know the frequencies from the license, which are in the IG Service, which are *supposed* to be conventional. In the dsdplus.event log I posted above, there are a few Group Calls with a TXI prefix - any idea what that signifies?

 

[BM82557]

I don't see any reference to LCN in the decoded data stream either. I know the frequencies from the license, which are in the IG Service, which are *supposed* to be conventional. In the dsdplus.event log I posted above, there are a few Group Calls with a TXI prefix - any idea what that signifies?

One possible answer --

Dsd+ 2.145 question

Listening to a DMR (MOT) BS DCC-1 System has a tg on slot - 1 And another tg on slot-2, when some one starts talking this line comes up TXI GROUP CALL and then the tg on the slot it's on. Question, What does TXI mean ?? Steve

forums.radioreference.com

 

[maus92]

In the VC Event log window I posted in #5 above, on the bottom left corner there is a string "DMR BS DCC:1". Does the "DMR" portion change to "Cap+" or "Con+" when those types of systems are decoded, or is it always "DMR?"

On the VC DSD+ window title bar there is "=DMR" - same question.

In the VC DSD+ window, most lines begin with "+DMR" - same question. Also, I have seen other DSD+ windows posted in the forums where the "+DMR" is replaced with a "-DMR" - is this simply a new notation used by DSD+, or is there an actual difference in meaning between the two notations?

Finally, is DSD Decode still a thing? I see the GitHub is still up. I was wondering if it brings additional / complementary abilities vs. the current version of DSD+FL?

 

[maus92]

Should be DMRDecode, lol.

 

[slicerwizard]

Here are a few screen shots:

The vc window is showing the tail of the "data burst" seen every 10 seconds or so. Occasionally there is voice traffic, and you will see the slot and tg assigned to the call.

Just a plain conventional channel.

For reference, here is a screen shot of the other active channel, although I have not heard any voice traffic on the frequency.

Can't tell much without a decoded data screenshot.

Thanks - what I am not seeing is any reference to another frequency or channel number in the data flying by in the VC window. I've backed up to look at the voice grants, but it's basic slot, tg, and rid info, aka no routing / reference to another channel.

Conventional channels have no need for any of that fancy stuff.

In the VC Event log window I posted in #5 above, on the bottom left corner there is a string "DMR BS DCC:1". Does the "DMR" portion change to "Cap+" or "Con+" when those types of systems are decoded

Yes.

On the VC DSD+ window title bar there is "=DMR" - same question.

Doesn't change.

In the VC DSD+ window, most lines begin with "+DMR" - same question.

Sync patterns = DMR. Doesn't change.

Also, I have seen other DSD+ windows posted in the forums where the "+DMR" is replaced with a "-DMR" - is this simply a new notation used by DSD+, or is there an actual difference in meaning between the two notations?

Signal polarity. Something other than an FMPx program is feeding DSD+. A tapped scanner, SDR#, etc.

Finally, is DSD Decode still a thing? I see the GitHub is still up. I was wondering if it brings additional / complementary abilities vs. the current version of DSD+FL?

I highly doubt it. Haven't heard anything about DMRDecode in years.

 

[maus92]

Thanks - you have confirmed what I suspected - a conventional DMR system. I'm not sure why the need for the periodic data burst though.

 

[slicerwizard]

Probably to let radios know that they're still in range of the repeater. Repeater/antenna faults can be detected sooner. Keeps the repeater warm / less thermal cycling. Discourages frequency campers. And other reasons, no doubt.

 

[maus92]

OK, the target system appears to have one subscriber that uses Cap+, RID=102 - an occasional user.. Now that I have the logging function working, I'll post some lines it generates when transmitting. The rest of the subs seem to be DMR conventional. The system is licensed for 3 channels, VOICE A-F seems to verify this, but on one freq seems to be used. DSD+FL still seems to show this as a conv DMR system.

20220104 143046,PASSED,CC:1 VOICE HEADER FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:B3 SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066B3D0A1
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143047,PASSED,SLC IDLE/NULL MESSAGE MSG:000000000
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 VOICE HEADER FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:B3 SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066B3D0A1
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143047,PASSED,     BS VOICE A
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143047,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 BS VOICE B
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 BS VOICE C
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143047,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 BS VOICE D
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143047,PASSED,FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:00 SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:00102000006400006600
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 BS VOICE E
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143047,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143047,PASSED,CC:1 BS VOICE F

20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143051,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143051,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143051,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143051,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143051,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143051,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143052,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143052,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143052,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143052,PASSED,SLC ACTIVITY UPDATE TS1 [3B] GROUP VOICE / TS2 [00] IDLE MSG:1803B0073
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 TERMINATOR FLC MOTOROLA CAP+ GROUP VOICE CHANNEL USER FM:102 TO:100 ON CHANNEL:LSN:1 LCN:1 UNK:BC SERVICE OPTIONS [] MSG:001020000064000066BCDFAE
20220104 143052,PASSED,CC:1 IDLE

 

[slicerwizard]

Whatever software you're using may report Cap+, but it doesn't make it Cap+. And there is no such thing as "one subscriber that uses Cap+"; a system is Cap+ or it's not.