Donations will now be subscriptions

[kjeroe]

I think that the info and assistance available here is well worth the $30.00 per year. Most of us have been using it for a long time for free, even before donating.

 

[n4voxgill]

if you will check the opening statement, it states that you can pay $7.50 every three months, so $15.00 would give you 6 months.

 

[CZ]

Am I reading things wrong here, or is RR going to become subscription only where you will have to pay before using *any service* or being able to post on the forums?

 

[hotdjdave]

Question - Answer

QUESTION:

Am I reading things wrong here, or is RR going to become subscription only where you will have to pay before using *any service* or being able to post on the forums?

ANSWER:

Folks,
Please note that access to information in the radioreference.com database and ability to use the forums will always remain free. This policy will NEVER change.

:wink:

 

[atwolf]

Entitlement mentality

I am amazed at the entitlement mentality of some folks:

"I am entitled to services at a rate (or lack of rate) that I deem fair..."
"I am entitled to have my desires considered before a private owner makes a private decision regarding a private website..."
"I am entitled to a refund of a voluntary donation anytime the organization I donated to changes its business model..."
"I am entitled to use the services to condemn and vilify the service provider..."
"I am entitled to a guarantee of free speech on a private web site..."

You are not entitled to anything provided by a private party. Fair has nothing to do with it. Lindsay has set what he believes to be a reasonable rate for value-added services. I happen to agree with his decision, and think the rate is fine. But, Lindsay will have the opportunity to continually guage the market response to that decision, and can adjust it as he sees fit. He could make the entire site subscription only, or close down the domain. Fair has nothing to do with. Life is not, nor is it about, fair.

This web site is private property. Lindsay is under no obligation to consult with anyone in advance of making a decision regarding this site. He may give you the opportunity to discuss (politely) your thoughts on a decision, or not, although "polite" seems to be a foreign concept to a very few...

A voluntary donation to anyone or any entity is just that. It is a voluntary transfer of funds from one party to another. Your entitlement regarding any say as to that donation ends when you tell PayPal or your credit card company or bank to turn loose of the funds. Turn loose - now there's a concept that has applicability here.

It amazes me that Lindsay has not simply blocked access to this site for a few. He must be a right patient old boy. What a pleasure - bearing the costs of providing the forum in which the cost-bearer can experience the pleasure of repeated brow-beatings. And the umbrage at a thread or post being deleted... as if you have a "right" to have a private website host your thoughts... or drivel as the case may be.

You will not be successful in walking into WalMart and telling the manager that he's chosen the wrong price for an item and to mark it down. The little smiley-face hatchet dude doesn't answer to you.

You will not be successful in challenging the WalMart managers decision to no longer offer vision services at that store, nor will he agree that he should have asked you first before making the decision.

If a business, church, person, etc., asks you for money and you give it, you are not likely to get a "refund" if you don't like the new policy, last sermon, or the fact that the bum bought booze instead of the burger he mentioned. Its no longer your money. Period.

You wil not be successful in walking into a building a posting your criticisms of their business on their wall. Unless you consider being successful being forcibly removed and / or your sign destroyed.

The same applies to a web site. You are not entitled to its existence, a say in its policies, or the right to access it or post on it.

Lindsay, thank you for the valuable site. I've been remiss in not donating more. Will be subscribing with pleasure.

Take care.

Terry Wolf

 

[jdsmith4508]

Question?

I read about half of the 1st page of messages and then skipped to the end.

Did I miss anything?

Jim

PS: I'll pay the $30.00.

 

[K7TKR]

I will develop the subscription model to support the subscription. It will be in your profile.

Is this going to reflect the donations that were already made? Quite frankly Lindsay, I have no idea how much I've donated. Half the tubes in my head have eithor burned out or just popped. And, just too lazy to go back and research my PayPal account.

My 2 cents worth on this subject is why not. There is simpley no other source of information that even comes close to matching what is here. I am a heavy user of the info and services offered here, I will continue to be a heavy user, and I will continue to support those that make this site what it has become.

 

[scnnr]

never mind, question has been answered

 

[hotdjdave]

Free Speech

"I am entitled to a guarantee of free speech on a private web site..." You are not entitled to anything provided by a private party.

I agree with much of what you wrote, except the above. Free speech is an unalienable right endowed by our Creator, and as provided by the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution does not differentiate where free speech may abound, in private or public. I know that many people who come here to RR are not in or from America, but the website is based in America. So those who come here should be able taste a little of American free speech.

Free speech is often thwarted in such private settings, nonetheless, it is still a right, not an entitlement. No one can take this right away, not a private citizen who operates a web site, not even Congress or the President or the United States can violate this right. Free speech is often muted; nonetheless, free speech still abounds in this country.

So please, do not spread anti-Americanism by spreading the thought that free speech does not belong in a private or public setting. Remember, private persons are what make a public forum possible. This forum is both private and public. A citizen of the United States of America IS entitled to free speech, whether in a public setting or a private setting, or any combination thereof. Jihadist promote anti-free speech. Oh, and I am not talking about the “yelling fire in the theater” here…not my point.

As for your model of what makes a good site, business, organization, what ever - not to be desired. It is the members who make it possible. The members are like the shareholders. The organization is beholden to the shareholders (members). The shareholders (members) voice should be heard. On a more community-model scale, it only makes sense to listen to what the members want in their web site. It only makes business sense to please the customer, or members of a community. Without the customer, the organization or community of members ceases to exist.


Free speech is a RIGHT! “Don’t Tread On Me.”

 

[DonS]

Free speech is often thwarted in such private settings, nonetheless, it is still a right, not an entitlement. No one can take this right away, not a private citizen who operates a web site

The right to free speech doesn't enter the situation, at all. The private citizen who operates a web site can simply deny posting access to anyone he wants - including those who say things he doesn't like.

 

[n4voxgill]

Isn't it time to close this. People are not even reading Lindsay"s original statement and keep asking questions that it answered. this horse has been beat until it has died over and over.

 

[hotdjdave]

The right to free speech doesn't enter the situation, at all. The private citizen who operates a web site can simply deny posting access to anyone he wants - including those who say things he doesn't like.

If this is the case, then the free speech is just thwarted; nevertheless, free speech still applies.

Just because someone prohibits free speech does not negate the right of free speech. It exists here and anywhere else in America and the world where free speech flourishes.

Back to the point, I exercise my free speech and say that we should all support this site and pay our membership fees so that we can continue this forum to utilize our right to free speech for the purpose of discussing "radio." We should feel proud that we have such a forum to exercise our free speech, and those who do not share such a great and marvelous freedom should feel honored.

 

[DaveNF2G]

I agree with much of what you wrote, except the above. Free speech is an unalienable right endowed by our Creator, and as provided by the Constitution of the United States. The Constitution does not differentiate where free speech may abound, in private or public. I know that many people who come here to RR are not in or from America, but the website is based in America. So those who come here should be able taste a little of American free speech.

Sorry, other Dave, but you're just plain wrong on several counts.

First, unalienable rights are not listed in the Constitution. They appear in the Preamble to the Declaration of Independence.

Second, Free Speech is not one of those unalienable rights. They are, "Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness."

Third, Free Speech is a Constitutional right, meaning that the Constitution prohibits "Congress" - the federal government - from making any law abridging that right. The Constitution simply does not apply to private citizens. It is an organizing and empowering document for the federal government of the United States.

If you want to pick apart my interpretation of the Constitution, well, it's not my interpretation. That's another power that private citizens lack. The U.S. Supreme Court has stated explicitly that the Constitution only regulates the behavior of the government. See Burdeau v. McDowell, 256 U.S. 465 (1921).

 

[hotdjdave]

Sorry, other Dave, but you're just plain wrong on several counts.

I did not intend this to be a hijacking of the thread, but I have to respond. So you are saying that a citizen of the United States does not have the right to freedom of speech? This is my point, not to whom or what the Constitution applies, if the end result is the same. American cititizens DO have the right to free speech and Congress shall make no law abridging that right.

Final word for me.

 

[atwolf]

Sorry, hotdjdave, just as you have no constitutional right to start preaching in a WalMart, you have no constitutional right to speech hosted on a private web site. Mr. Stark's analysis is correct. Your constitutional rights apply to the public square. That's the essence of balancing the rights of public free spech with the rights of property owners. THAT's the essence of America. Think of the extension of your logic. Under your inerpretation of free speech, we could all be subject to the most annoying behaviors on private property - chaos without recourse.

Now that I've violated every tenet (sorry) of keeping posts on-topic, I'll take my leave - of this thread, not RR.

Terry

 

[loumaag]

Final word for me.

With that promise I won't split your off topic comments from the thread. :wink:

Now suppose we restrict comments to the topic at hand, if you find it necessary to comment at all.

 

[rescue161]

Isn't it time to close this. People are not even reading Lindsay"s original statement and keep asking questions that it answered. this horse has been beat until it has died over and over.

ABSOLUTELY! Because of this right here:

I read about half of the 1st page of messages and then skipped to the end.

Did I miss anything?

 

[joeyfish]

for all the information i get on this site and the trouble free downloading to my 246 from arc 30 bucks is well worth it i,m in thanks RR

 

[blantonl]

And with that, it's time to put this thread to rest. I'll be posting FAQ shortly on the wiki explaining the changes and what's coming up on July 1st 2006.

Thanks for the healthy discussion folks.

Lindsay