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Dynamic zone and FPP personalities

Markb

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Questions for the Motorola Gurus out there. My department is using APX8000's with a lot of conventional zones and a few trunking. I am about to start our annual update (on the conventional stuff) and I am still trying to work through a few things:

1. I run 4 zones that are open to cloning with FPP enabled for wildland incidents. IIRC, when I initially set these zones up, CPS automatically added 16 personalities per zone. This appears to be creating a headache, particularly with scanning, which we use a LOT. Is it necessary to have all these personalities or can I have 1 personality per zone, like I am running on the rest of the radio? Are there any issues that would be created? Seems like with the ability to clone on incidents now, it could be problematic.

2. Same with a dynamic zone. This can and should be set up with a single personality, correct?

3. Scanning between conventional and trunked - I have always heard that this is not optimal. Is anybody out there using intelligent priority and not missing any traffic? Our priority cannel is the selected channel, for whatever that is worth. I have been experimenting with it and it seems to work okay. We are eventually migrating to a hybrid trunked/conventional system and need to scan between the two reliably.


Thanks in Advance,
Mark
 

Echo4Thirty

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I wont speak to the FPP stuff, but as for the scanning. Anytime you leave a trunked control channel to scan either a conventional channel or another trunked system, you WILL miss traffic. Regardless of the marketing name of the type of scan, its basic physics when there is only one receiver in the radio. If its off listening to something else, it will miss what is on the others in the list.
 

jeepsandradios

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On a busy system you will miss traffici n scan between conventional and trunking. Quiet systems it works ok. Our FF radios were programmed with scan but only Dispatch when on conventional fireground. It was removed afterm ultiple incidents where users were hearing dispatch and not command on site.
 

Echo4Thirty

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System loading absolutly comes into play. You can minimize the risk of missing traffic as you said by limiting the number of conventional channels and having a lightly loaded site. It can have it uses as long as the users are trained and aware of the risks. Typically we try to dumb down our fireground channels. No scan, or anything that would take them away from the singular channel they need to be on. If dispatch needs to intervene, they can do it via the onscene commander who can relay back. No fancy touch screens, no fancy AI button. We dont want the firefighters distracted by radio stuff. Just talk and listen and if **** goes bad, hit the giant orange button.

I have had programming requests for the entire kitchen sink to be scanned and had to polietly refuse after explaining why. Some of these agency guys just dont seem to get it and at worst do not care about creating safety issues in their radio programming/operations.
 
Joined
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Location
Pittsboro IN
Our FF radios were programmed with scan but only Dispatch when on conventional fireground. It was removed after multiple incidents where users were hearing dispatch and not command on site.
This is from fire fighter Lt Nathan Flynn's LODD report.

Equipment Related
Although the ISRB determined that FF Flynn’s MAYDAY transmission on Bravo 2, which was
neither identified by the Communications Center nor any crew at the incident scene, likely had
no impact on the survivability of FF Flynn. However, the issue of a crew member operating on
the wrong tactical channel has implications for the safety during future incident operations. As
such, the ISRB conducted an extensive review of the radio equipment and have made
recommendations to mitigate safety concerns identified by the ISRB.

First, FF Flynn affiliated his assigned portable radio to Bravo 2, which was the incorrect Talk
Group for the incident. In Spring 2017, HCDFRS deployed the Motorola APX8000XE portable
radios with an associated programming change. Previous portable radios allowed for manual
switching of radio channels with the radio in the “off” position.

The APX8000XE radios power up
to the previous Talk Group and channel regardless of the channel selector knob or talk group
toggle position. Manual manipulation of the knob or toggle with the radio in the “off” position
does not change the radio channel selection once powered “on”. There is evidence that FF Flynn
affiliated first with the Alpha 2 Talk Group, then switched to Bravo 2 Talk Group and remained
on that channel until extricated from the structure.

Second, FF Flynn’s MAYDAY communication was transmitted on Bravo 2. This transmission
occurred around the exact time that Engine 101A was transmitting a MAYDAY communication
on Bravo 1. Any radio on the assigned Bravo 1 Talk Group and in scan mode defaulted to the
selected channel of Bravo 1, hence not allowing the Bravo 2 transmission to be heard.
Third, FF Flynn’s radio transmitted an emergency identifier, likely because of the man-down
function, and the emergency identifier was transmitted on Bravo 2.

No one on the scene or in the Communications Center recognized that the emergency identifier was sounding on the
Bravo 2 Talk Group. The ISRB determined that the failure to recognize that the emergency
identifier operated on the Bravo 2 Talk Group likely had no impact on the survivability of FF
Flynn as the RIC had already been deployed and was rapidly gaining access to FF Flynn at the
time of the activation.

Fourth, FF Flynn wore his assigned Motorola APX8000XE radio in a leather strap and holster
assembly under his turnout coat. Wearing the radio in this fashion shielded the radio and
microphone cord from thermal damage. The radio and lapel microphone is rated for sixty (60)
degrees Celsius/ 140 degrees Fahrenheit, a temperature that was far exceeded in the
environment.

Had the radio and lapel microphone been exposed to the ambient temperatures
in the crawlspace, there is a high likelihood that the radio and lapel microphone would have
experienced failure. Of note, the Howard County 800 MHz radio system is coverage tested with
the Motorola APX8000XE radio worn at the hip position, configured in the same manner as it
was worn by FF Flynn.

Fifth, the portable radio worn by FF Flynn and assigned to the Engine 101 Firefighter “B” riding
position passed all functional testing. The Howard County Radio Shop tested the portable radio
assigned to and worn by FF Flynn during the incident on September 18, 2018.

The radio used by FF Flynn is a Motorola APX8000XE. The testing was conducted by system engineers from
Motorola Solutions, Inc. and witnessed by various members of the ISRB, fire department
administration, and a detective from the Howard County Department of Police. For technical
expertise, the Howard County telecommunications manager as well as the Prince George’s Radio
telecommunications manager provided oversight.

Also, two additional radio system engineers
from Motorola Solutions, Inc. were present to provide technical expertise. Although the unit had
received thermal and mechanical damage consistent with the fall and environmental conditions
encountered in the crawlspace, the radio and the lapel microphone passed all bench testing and
functioned as designed. This test established that FF Flynn’s radio was functional and working
as designed.

Additionally, forensic test conducted on FF Flynn’s radio determined that FF Flynn’s radio was set
to operate on Bravo 2 and the scan function was engaged. On November 7, 2018 a series of
tests were conducted on FF Flynn’s radio by Motorola Solutions at their forensics facility in
Plantation, Florida.

These tests verified that although the radio had been exposed to high
temperatures it had not lost any functionality or tactility. In other words, FF Flynn’s radio was
verified by the manufacturer to be fully functional and operated as programed. Reviewing the
radio programming, the manufacturer and ISRB noted that features such as the Emergency
Identifier program were suboptimal because it lacked an emergency identifier revert option to
place the radio on the command channel.
 
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