E-SSB

[N_Jay]

It sure is funny that this subject comes up here and the same delimas and argument have not changed...

First off Hi-Fi SSB or E-SSB is one of the newest and most controvercial subject around.

Let look at what new products are using the technology from ESSB...

Yaesu newest rig FTDX-9000
www.yaesu.com

A very nice but pricey rig

Now Im not going to pull no bones on the issue of how wide they are and can get but I much rather hear the audio from a ESSB rig then the standard SSB.

Face it the Amature band is small as it is. Maybe with this technology we could ask for more bandwidth on the HF side? (Yeah right) But you cant deny the fact that this has helped SSB operation which has not occured in over 40 years!

I think its time for the amature radio community to fight for more band width before we loose it to NEXTEL!!!

As far as HAM experimenting... Where would we be with out people like Bob Heil?

How many of you guys own a tape recorder or a VCR?

How many of you guys are now listening to APCO 25 systems?

I know you have a computer!

If you answered yes to at least one of those, you better thank a HAM for
for experimenting!

Maybe I missed something? :roll:

Where is the "experimentation"?

What is not known about SSB (ESSB is a BS name) that is going to be discovered playing with this "better sounding" stuff.

SSB has been run at all sorts of bandwidths for YEARS.
Heck, the video signal on standard NTSC TV is VSB (Vestigial Side Band) a version of SSB, at bandwidths approaching 6 MHz.

 

[Buckskinner33]

Sorry N Jay... Ive been playing with Hi-Fi SSB for about a year or two. I was on 14.180 when the Hoopla started, so I sort get my feathers ruffled when I read about it. "Hi-Fi ssb is a bandwidth hog", "It sould be illeagle", "This BAND isnt for lab experiments", yatta yatta yatta....

The experimenters that I mention are all HAM who played around and created new products while working on HAM radio.

Bob Heil (A HAM)recently developed a wider frequency responce mic just for this purpose and made it at a reasonable price. The story has it Joe Walsh ( another HAM) suggested it.

With the new Yaesu rig, you have some of the Hi-FI componets built in, that the RACK once provided all you need is the MIC. So I am told...
( I dont have 12 g's to drop on a rig like that and theres only 3 in the US as of now.)

What I like about Hi-FI SSB is that I can control the Audio. For local rag chewing I can make it flat wide and basey...For DX I can spike my mid range an break up a pile up on a distant station and my audio is clear and understandable.

I bet in the future you will see more HF rigs built with DSP, Mic preamps and a lot more control over the audio output for the user and eleminating the RACK. And maybe they just might use less RF wattage to get a signal out.

Imagine that...A radio that get a signal out with minimal RF... and it is always clear.

Healthy, Enviromentaly friendly and safe!

I would love to experiment with that!!

 

[poltergeisty]

Imagine that...A radio that get a signal out with minimal RF... and it is always clear.

Healthy, Enviromentaly friendly and safe!

I would love to experiment with that!!

Now thats the spirit. :wink:

 

[Buckskinner33]

Thank you...
I hate to sound Star-Treky but SSB has been needing somthing like this for a long time. I've always like AM and FM audio and I somtimes wondered as to why SSB couldnt sound as clear as those two do.

Maybe one of these days will see a tranciever the size of a badge that does everything we could imagine.

Be me up Scotty!!!!

 

[Buckskinner33]

Be me up Scotty!!!!

BEAM I meant BEAM!!!

With my tag line I better get this right or I'll get ripped!!!
More coffee on Isle 5 please! :wink:

 

[bsavery]

Be me up Scotty!!!!

BEAM I meant BEAM!!!

With my tag line I better get this right or I'll get ripped!!!
More coffee on Isle 5 please! :wink:

Which island is #5??

Bob

 

[N_Jay]

Imagine that...A radio that get a signal out with minimal RF... and it is always clear.

Healthy, Enviromentaly friendly and safe!

I would love to experiment with that!!

Now thats the spirit. :wink:

And where does E-SSB fit into this?

 

[N_Jay]

Thank you...
I hate to sound Star-Treky but SSB has been needing somthing like this for a long time. I've always like AM and FM audio and I somtimes wondered as to why SSB couldnt sound as clear as those two do.

Maybe one of these days will see a tranciever the size of a badge that does everything we could imagine.

Be me up Scotty!!!!

You can get SSB to sound almost as good as AM or FM (Well it is AM, but thats another story), Its called ACSB.

As for fidelity, that is directly related to bandwidth. You can design AM, FM, SSB, PM, or any other analog modulation for whatever bandwidth you desire.

 

[Bow]

And don't you dare experiment with amateur radio because that's not what it's for. It's for rag chewing, dammit. :wink:

How dare them guys try to sound good on SSB... :shock:

Ham radio is to talk about you illnesses, your pickup truck and argue about the Government....



E-SSB sounds great, and I disagree that you need a 6 khz filter, those stations sounded great even with a 2.5khz filter...

then I bumped up to a 3.3khz, which actually gave me about 4 khz wide on my SpectraPlus, and they sounded fuller.

But hey, everybody has to complain about something...

I am surprised AM is still legal on the HAM bands...

 

[N_Jay]

And don't you dare experiment with amateur radio because that's not what it's for. It's for rag chewing, dammit. :wink:

How dare them guys try to sound good on SSB... :shock:

Ham radio is to talk about you illnesses, your pickup truck and argue about the Government....



E-SSB sounds great, and I disagree that you need a 6 khz filter, those stations sounded great even with a 2.5khz filter...

then I bumped up to a 3.3khz, which actually gave me about 4 khz wide on my SpectraPlus, and they sounded fuller.

But hey, everybody has to complain about something...

I am surprised AM is still legal on the HAM bands...

I think you are missing the point.

ANY IDIOT (OK, a few could screw it up) can get better sound by using more bandwidth.

But bandwidth (and power) conservation are why SSB is used.

I don't see how this "so called" E-SSB is an advancement at all. It is clearly a step backwards.

Why don't we go back to 50 kHz FM channels on VHF and UHF? It would SOUND better!

Forget SSB, lets go back to AM, it sounds better. :roll:

 

[Bow]

Forget SSB, lets go back to AM, it sounds better. :roll:

OK.. AM Sounds Better...

But it doesn't propagate nearly as well as SSB at the same power level. The guys that were running on 14.230 USB sounded good, but they are not running there now, or I have not heard them in a while.

They are people out there that want to try to sound better on SSB and people out there that don't....

So be it.

We can agree to disagree...

 

[kb2vxa]

bandwidth

Hi guys,

I don't know about "isle 5" but my QTH is IOTA 111. (;->)

Some claim to be hams but write like Novices, others just plain don't know what they're writing about. Since this is no place for a tutorial in radio theory I suggest you all crack the books, you're cracking me up. I'm no expert but when someone suggests AM because it sounds better than SSB it looks like he's using the wrong filter and can't tune a receiver properly. Sheesh, SSB is only AM with the carrier and one sideband removed!

I hate to come off like some sort of know-it-all but please, if you want hi-fi I'll catch you on subspace channel D when Uhura finishes with Starfleet. (;->)

 

[K2KOH]

That reminds me - I used to listen to AM chats on 10 meters in my early SWL days. I thought they sounded phenomenal. Now I have a portable radio that can receive 10/6/2/70c in AM mode and I'm wondering what the currently active AM frequencies are.

Don't worry - I know a rubber duckie is not good on HF. I have a much better antenna mounted on the car. :wink:

If I'm not mistaken, sometimes there's some AM activity between 28.9 and 29 MHz...just below the FM portion of 10 meters. Haven't heard any AM activity recently, though...most of it is on 40 and 75, unfortunately..

 

[N_Jay]

Re: bandwidth

Hi guys,

I don't know about "isle 5" but my QTH is IOTA 111. (;->)

Some claim to be hams but write like Novices, others just plain don't know what they're writing about. Since this is no place for a tutorial in radio theory I suggest you all crack the books, you're cracking me up. I'm no expert but when someone suggests AM because it sounds better than SSB it looks like he's using the wrong filter and can't tune a receiver properly. Sheesh, SSB is only AM with the carrier and one sideband removed!

I hate to come off like some sort of know-it-all but please, if you want hi-fi I'll catch you on subspace channel D when Uhura finishes with Starfleet. (;->)

OK, let me be clearer. It is easier to make AM sound better than SSB, or more accuatly, it is difficult to make SSB sound as good as AM.

SSB will always lose some low frequency information, SSB will almost always have a feequency offset uless it is phase locked, and then it will still have a phase offset. But then again, AM takes up 2X + some spectrum, so I guess you could get a 6 kHz wide SSB signal to sound as good as a 6 kHz occupied bandwidth AM signal.

Hmm, sseems to depend on how you slice it????

 

[DaveNF2G]

That reminds me - I used to listen to AM chats on 10 meters in my early SWL days. I thought they sounded phenomenal. Now I have a portable radio that can receive 10/6/2/70c in AM mode and I'm wondering what the currently active AM frequencies are.

Don't worry - I know a rubber duckie is not good on HF. I have a much better antenna mounted on the car. :wink:

If I'm not mistaken, sometimes there's some AM activity between 28.9 and 29 MHz...just below the FM portion of 10 meters. Haven't heard any AM activity recently, though...most of it is on 40 and 75, unfortunately..

My VX-7 will tune there, but I don't expect to hear much. :wink:

 

[Buckskinner33]

N_jay:
You answered your own question, It is now not that difficult to make SSB sound like AM!! Thats the advantage.

Now I have a question for you:
How much RF power is needed to substain good, continous audio on AM vs SSB?
And what is there range for both?


Im still here when my Isle can keep an internet connection... :lol:

 

[Buckskinner33]

If I'm not mistaken, sometimes there's some AM activity between 28.9 and 29 MHz...just below the FM portion of 10 meters. Haven't heard any AM activity recently, though...most of it is on 40 and 75, unfortunately..

Dave , Where on the bottom of the cycle working our way back up. The 10 m portion is real poor for DX.

 

[rand]

When single sideband was first becoming popular on the ham bands (late 1950s, early 1960s), it was very controversial. Magazine letters to the editor (QST, CQ, 73) of the time were filled with the debate. "Real" phone operators argued that the mode junked up the bands with the sounds of monkey chatter. Others argued that the FCC disallowed voice scrambling and therefore SSB was plainly illegal since transmissions needed special equipment to decipher. Still other AM phone ops lamented that sideband wasn't true to the essence of amateur radio: they argued that the whole point of ham radio was that we were putting "amateur" radio stations on the air and that sideband's fidelity distorted the sound of the human voice in ways that no self-respecting station op would accept. The new sideband operators were renegades in so many ways, and some AM ops even went so far as to QRM them off the air when they could.

I write this bit of history only to remind us that these arguments about bandwidth, fidelity, and phone mode choice are very old. Ironically, the same type of person who is arguing against fidelity and broader bandwidth today (the traditionalist who eschews change), argued vociferously in an opposite way some 45 years ago.

Randy

 

[Buckskinner33]

Well said Randy. I knew there was a history, I just didnt know where to pull the facts to back my case. Thank you.

Are you the same Randy from 14.180 in AZ or NM?

 

[N_Jay]

N_jay:
You answered your own question, It is now not that difficult to make SSB sound like AM!! Thats the advantage.

Now I have a question for you:
How much RF power is needed to substain good, continous audio on AM vs SSB?
And what is there range for both?


Im still here when my Isle can keep an internet connection... :lol:

Hey, go back and read the thread. I am not arguing in favor of AM, just pointing out that E-SSB is about as much of an advance as going back to AM.