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Early pseudo-trunked system

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KevinC

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One for the old guys….

The City of Houston Public Works had a sort of trunked system in the late 1970’s early 1980’s. It used GE radios and added on logic by Becker Whimser (or Wismer or Whismer)???? I believe they were out of California.

It had a dedicated control or data channel and distributed voice channels.

Anyone have any recollection of this type of system.
 

KevinC

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And if I remember correctly they weren’t a “radio” company, they were an engineering firm and won the contract for the CoH radio system. But this was a looong time ago, so I could have a lot of stuff wrong. ;)
 

Echo4Thirty

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I remember hearing about this, but the old stuff I saw laying around was X9000s and before. I do know of the system you are talking about and knowing my previous employer, them hiring a non radio company because they are cheap to put a system in does not surprise me!

I STILL want to know what happened to HFDs XTS3500s! I want one of them for my 'bastard' radio collection.

is this the goofy system that used PLs as the equivalent of TGs and had to have a scan board mod put in? SmarTrunk perhaps???
 

Echo4Thirty

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I remember reading about this some years ago and honestly for back in the day, it was a pretty good idea. I seem to remember channel acquisition was horrible as there was no real way for the radio to be steered to a specific voice channel. It just had to find it and decode to know it was supposed to be there.

Seemed to work a lot like the old IMTS system, but with less smarts.
 

KevinC

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I remember reading about this some years ago and honestly for back in the day, it was a pretty good idea. I seem to remember channel acquisition was horrible as there was no real way for the radio to be steered to a specific voice channel. It just had to find it and decode to know it was supposed to be there.

Seemed to work a lot like the old IMTS system, but with less smarts.

You may be thinking of GE Marc. I was a GE Marc master back in the day.
 

Echo4Thirty

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I didn't think this was limited to GE equipment. I remember it being an aftermarket add on board for Standard, Icom or whatever flavor of multichannel V/U radios you might have had.
 

WB5UOM

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I was banging my head on the wall trying to think of GE MARC when I read KevinC's post.
I was on the phone with an old geezer that used to be in the radio Business (silly me- still am) and he thinks
Wismer and Becker is the right name you all mentioned and like you all vaguely remembers that system.
 

SuitSat

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For the record, GE Marc V (& V-E) did not have a "dedicated control or data channel", it was a Scan-based/distributed control trunking protocol like SmarTrunk, with collect tones...

is this the goofy system that used PLs as the equivalent of TGs and had to have a scan board mod put in? SmarTrunk perhaps???
Just sayin, but, in addition to SmarTrunk, that description reminds me of MultiAx (which is NOT like MPT1327 as some might say)...

[BTW, IIRC back in the days, there were also some strange trunking "experiments" done with MDC and even DTMF tones !]
 
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SuitSat

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As "someone" here stated that I'm too grumpy and dense to be appreciated on that forum (the same kind of guy who couldn't differentiate a KYK-13 from a MX-18290 even if his life depended on it :rolleyes:) I don't know why I feel inclined to answer here and not "on that other forum" from which we're both members, and is far more "professional" (wink)...

Maybe it's because of your georgous photographs and odball radio stuff ? (BTW keep up the good work ;))

So here ya go :

-DTMF based "pseudo-trunking" : Western Radio "Trac" System with it's DTMF homing channel (worked a bit akin to actual Moto Capacity Plus)
Ontario, Canada, later replaced by a MPT1327 system.

-MDC based "pseudo-trunking" : OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) NOR system
It used analog "Special Product" Spectra with custom MLM and custom firmware (the remote mount interconnect board was also heavily modified), and a very customized control head (special RSS needed of course !).

IIRC, most sites had two (or three) voice channels and the channel that wasn't in use was usually "acking" away (IIRC it used MDC-600 as a control channel).
The phone patch option was rather weird too, the unit sent MDC-600 bursts for each digit dialed which the repeater converted to DTMF tones...
It was later replaced by a VHF SmartZone system.

I still have a sound sample of the NOR MDC system and would have glady attached it here, but that forum doesn't accept WAV, too bad !



PS : Just for completeness sake, here is a description of the MultiAx (Australian) system, which could be classified as a "pseudo-trunk" system :

"A MutiAx (Multiple Access) channel is effectively a list of Community Repeater Channels.

While there is no signal present, the radio scans all channels for a signal.
When a signal is found, the radio checks it for CTCSS and, if correct, listens on that channel, allowing PTT if the user PTTs.
If a non-valid CTCSS is detected, the radio resumes scanning.
When the user presses PTT (if not already listening on a channel) then the radio searches for the first free channel and transmits there.

This allows the traffic capacity of a Community Repeater site to be increased by simply adding co-sited community repeaters.
The radio does all the hard work of determining which channel to listen to or to use."

MultiAx is NOT a variant of MPT1327/MPT1343 (as stated on Wikipedia) !
MultiAx operates on CTCSS to separate operational groups and does not comply with these standards.
It is a multi-group multi-access system which can also be multi site.
It supports fewer fleets or groups than MPT1327/1343 but can have lower infrastructure costs than MPT1327/1343


There's still lots of strange trunking protocols in this world; past like the French Alcatel DIVA system (similar to GE Marc V), or present like the Japanese MCA digital system for example, but that's a story for another time... ;-)
 

mikegilbert

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Thank you! I'm always fascinated by transitional radio technology. I wish I would've made more audio recordings of all the analog systems when I was younger.

You've also inspired/reminded me to go take more photographs.
 

mikewazowski

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-MDC based "pseudo-trunking" : OPP (Ontario Provincial Police) NOR system
It used analog "Special Product" Spectra with custom MLM and custom firmware (the remote mount interconnect board was also heavily modified), and a very customized control head (special RSS needed of course !).

IIRC, most sites had two (or three) voice channels and the channel that wasn't in use was usually "acking" away (IIRC it used MDC-600 as a control channel).

Yes, most sites were 2 channels although a few sites had 3. The mobiles hung out on the “marker” channel until a call came in.

When a TAC was setup on a site, the marker was taken down and the radios reverted to the tower’s prime frequency which became a regular repeater.

Not sure if I’ve still got a control head but I’ll post a picture of I can find it.
 

ecps92

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shame that trunkedradio.net is no longer :geek:
One for the old guys….

The City of Houston Public Works had a sort of trunked system in the late 1970’s early 1980’s. It used GE radios and added on logic by Becker Whimser (or Wismer or Whismer)???? I believe they were out of California.

It had a dedicated control or data channel and distributed voice channels.

Anyone have any recollection of this type of system.
 
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