Education Please!

[Onator]

OK, I know nothing about any of this so would appreciate anyones input. I bought my son a Pro-82 Radio Shack scanner as he was interested in hearing local "general" aviation chatter. It actually seems to work pretty well even indoors and with the standard provided attenna. Now for my stupid question. Why are we hearing only 1-side of the transmission (ex:NW 419 climb/maintain 21000....) but never hear the other side? My son claims he is only hearing the aircraft side, never gound. I say he is hearing both but never a 2-sided transmission. Thoughts?

 

[ATCTech]

Very simple answer - distance from the transmitter the air traffic controller is using. With the scanner's on-board antenna versus an outdoor antenna, your range is likely only a very few miles ground to ground (your scanner to the transmitter that is.) The altitude of the aircraft, even if only a few thousand feet in the sky, dramatically increases the effective range of what he's hearing. An aircraft flying at 30,000 ft. of higher might easily be heard nearly 200 miles away!

Where are you located? You might find local frequencies listed on many a web site and then know what you're hearing and what your chances are of hearing both sides of the conversation.

Bob

 

[Stavro35]

If you're too far away from the airport,which i am guessing you are in this case. You might look for ARTC frequencies . Or more commonly known as "Center" frequencies.

I used to live between Jacksonville Florida and Savannah Georgia. I had both airports tower,and approach/departure frequencies programed in my radios. Once in awhile when the weather conditions were right,I heard the towers from both locations. Or one or the other.

I am now in the flight path of Boeing field and Seatac. Not only do I hear pretty much everything from both airports. I often see aircraft aircraft arriving or departing from both airports. It's a lot of fun sometimes. When I'm trying to sleep and happen to be in the flight path. I want to cry! lol

 

[Hoofy]

In my area I hear Minneapolis control using only one or two frequencies to transmit on but the planes tend to use a different frequency when answering. I'll hear control say aircraft at such and such tune to my frequency xxx.xxx which is never the frequency the controller is on.

For our little local airport they use what they call unicom. This seems to be a frequency that everyone at the airport uses. So any aircraft coming or going uses the same frequency and can talk with the maintenance people on the ground as well as the the people in the terminal.

Frequency 123.45 is aircraft to aircraft chit chat frequency which is kinda interesting at times.

 

[ATCTech]

Hoofy, ATC comms are pure simplex, not split frequencies. What you're likely hearing is a controller using both a local and remote frequency at the same time. Some ATC comm systems allow for one frequency to "retransmit" on another so aircraft in different areas will in fact hear one anther even though the same controller is working both sectors. We routinely couple frequencies together during quiet periods when there are fewer aircraft in the airspace and fewer controllers working, and many times those frequencies may be 100 miles or more apart. In many cases you'd never hear the ground based transmitters on both frequencies unless you're very high in the air. If it's ZMP (Minneapolis Center) enroute or MSP Tower your listening to you can bet they have many active frequencies in use, you;re just not in a position to hear the transmiter on the ground.

Bob

 

[Stavro35]

Hoofy that reminds me of paired frequencies that Jacksonville Center either uses or used.

126.75/135.450 .. It was often very confusing and annoying. I could hear both but it bugged me to no end.

 

[Onator]

We are in twin cities (shoreview) and maybe you are right we are just hearing the overhead aircraft transmissions? MSP is about 7+/- nm from our suburb. Sorry for my continued questions here as I'm having a hard time even staying awake here tonight (4-kids will do that to ya)..So If I'm following then we could get some sort of a roof antenna and increase the probability that he will hear "dual side" transmissions? Additonal question; the 934th Airwing is located here at MSP as well, any recommendations on how I can help him tune into that? I understand some of these may just simply be encrypted..A budding Air Force career here for junior so would like to foster his interest as time/$$ allow...Thanks for the direction here, very helpful and I really appreciate it.

 

[Stavro35]

Well you're surely close enough to hear most everything from the airport. Sure,any antenna set up. Even an antenna in the attic would improve things.

With regards to the 934th., Any radio that will tune into the military range of 225.0 to 400.00 mhz mode will do.
The same would hold true for a radio that is capable of tuning into the 138.0 to 144.0 mhz range am mode. Of course if they're currently deployed you won't hear anything at all.

Military aviation frequencies aren't encrypted. Just the base communications in some cases. I'd have to look over what's on this site for their operations. I have family in Wisconsin about three hours from you.I'd like to keep in touch.

 

[Stavro35]

Follow up on the 934th
http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=4860

They only list two frequencies on this site. And both are digital p25 encrypted. You could do a search in FM mode between 138.0 -144.0 to see if you find anything that is not.

 

[Hoofy]

I live in Michigans UP and just north of me is a remote transmitting site for Min. control so that's why I can hear them so well. I hear them on 127.2 for the low level flights and 379.xx for the high level flights. If I have 2 scanners on I can hear more of both sides.

These controllers handle all traffic coming through the sector and give weather and conditions for a lot of airports east of Minneapolis. They also give directions and keep track of military air space around Lake Superior.

 

[ATCTech]

Not sure how fresh the info on the enroute stuff is but you have looked here for the ARTCC:

http://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?aid=2240

and here (Jan 2009):

http://www.airnav.com/airport/KMSP

for the airport?

Bob

 

[davidmc36]

In my area I hear Minneapolis control using only one or two frequencies to transmit on but the planes tend to use a different frequency when answering. I'll hear control say aircraft at such and such tune to my frequency xxx.xxx which is never the frequency the controller is on.

I think in that particular case what you may be hearing is that controller works more than one frequency and each frequency is for a different area/altitude. The aircraft is probably moving from one area to the other and he is telling him the new frequency for that transition. Often times also you may hear the controller beacause the frequency that he is transmitting on is transmitted from different locations and one of those transmitters is close enough for you to hear it but the airplane is not. Just one of the scenarios that I have seen in play but there could be other reasons too.

 

[Stavro35]

VHF/UHF Hi and low

In the case of Jacksonville Florida center they had vhf and uhf hi/low frequencies. This is likely the case nationwide for other sectors.

 

[poltergeisty]

http://www.liveatc.net/feedmap/feedmap.html

You proabbly are too far from the transmission site that ATC is using. Or you need a roof mounted antenna.

 

[FM_Weasel]

I've been reading that roof mounted antennas are the best way to ensure you'll pick up the tower as well. I think I'd like to get into one

Is the radioshack 20-176 a good performan/price value? How do most people go about setting this up? Can it be done fairly easily? What's the best way to route the cable coming down?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[Stavro35]

Can you go in an attic or on the roof to see if you can hear the tower? It might be worth it to see if you can before investing in an antenna only to find out that it didn't help.

 

[poltergeisty]

A rubber ducky vs a good antenna isn't saying much when testing.

 

[pathalogical]

We are in twin cities (shoreview) and maybe you are right we are just hearing the overhead aircraft transmissions? MSP is about 7+/- nm from our suburb. Sorry for my continued questions here as I'm having a hard time even staying awake here tonight (4-kids will do that to ya)..So If I'm following then we could get some sort of a roof antenna and increase the probability that he will hear "dual side" transmissions? Additonal question; the 934th Airwing is located here at MSP as well, any recommendations on how I can help him tune into that? I understand some of these may just simply be encrypted..A budding Air Force career here for junior so would like to foster his interest as time/$$ allow...Thanks for the direction here, very helpful and I really appreciate it.

A commom practice that many aviation listeners do, is go to the local airport and listen. This will ensure both sides of the conversation. Not only to listen, but to see aircrafts taxing as they arrive and depart. Caution though, find a public area such as coffee shop parking lot, fast food lot etc., that way you will not draw attention to yourself by security. Many plane spotters have had unfriendly experiences with security or police since 9/11. Plus, it's a great way to spend time with your kids for a couple of hours, beats sitting in front of the tv or playing video games !