EMSA says: We can afford a new encrypted radio system, but we are going broke!! LINK.

[CommShrek]

Yeah, you guys go read this article and tell me what you think. They just installed this new encrypted radio system but yet they are going broke and will need subsidies from various cities they service. Sure...I'd try to run that game too.

Many of you already know that Med-Tec in Rogers county sold out and they are now known as Pafford EMS. They tried the same routine. Now here comes EMSA with thier song and dance.

My question for EMSA is this. If you are going broke, why did you just spend millions on this new encrypted radio system? You weren't required to do it by an law or ordnance. No one else in our area has it. It did NOT improve your communications, so WHY? Remember, you're going broke so let's hear it.

http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&id=88971

 

[Medic32]

I guess they didnt see how far that got Med-Tec. I can understand EMSA wanting their trucks on the 800mhz system but not going all out and going digtially encrypted. But, I agree, if you cant afford it, why do it?

 

[seamusg]

Try what they do in Macomb Co. MI --- RECALL ALL ELECTED OFFICALS.

 

[greenthumb]

EMSA didn't spend a dime of their own money on the radio system, folks. It was all paid for through Oklahoma Department of Homeland Security grant funds.

 

[mapexdrum]

That's just peachy. I suppose the DHS funds are like anything else that's run by any government...spend it or lose it?

 

[rcvmo]

I suppose the DHS funds are like anything else that's run by any government...spend it or lose it?

I used our DHS funds wisely...........bought 100 digital HD recorders and Infrared cameras!!!!!!!!
And still running a conventional 800 Mhz system! I like keeping it simple!

RCVMO

 

[mapexdrum]

I want some digital HD recorders...you could hook me up rcvmo

 

[greenthumb]

That's just peachy. I suppose the DHS funds are like anything else that's run by any government...spend it or lose it?

Sort of, but mostly you have to spend the money in the fashion that the grant says to spend it....

 

[CommShrek]

EMSA didn't spend a dime of their own money on the radio system, folks. It was all paid for through Oklahoma Department of Homeland Security grant funds.

I wonder what they told the ODHS to get the system. I mean, when you apply for a grant, usually you need a good reason to get what you are asking for. What kind of good reason did they cite for NEEDING that system. I don't feel there was an actual need for a radio system like the one they have. What did the system actually cost? Some people have been told that those new green Motorola walkies are ~$8,000 each!! That's just for the walkies.

Sounds like EMSA needs grant money for day to day operations costs, not some new radio system.

 

[mapexdrum]

$8,000 for a walkie. Looks like I'm in the wrong business.

I don't have $8,000 tied up in any of my radio equipment, computer equipment or for that matter my car or anything in my apartment....

 

[greenthumb]

I wonder what they told the ODHS to get the system. I mean, when you apply for a grant, usually you need a good reason to get what you are asking for. What kind of good reason did they cite for NEEDING that system. I don't feel there was an actual need for a radio system like the one they have. What did the system actually cost? Some people have been told that those new green Motorola walkies are ~$8,000 each!! That's just for the walkies.

Sounds like EMSA needs grant money for day to day operations costs, not some new radio system.

Could be - but those radios are roughly $5,000 each. Still high....but $3,000 less than you said.

On the Homeland Security Grant Funding - i'm not sure that digital and encrypted is necessary, either - but radio interoperability with the state's largest EMS provider sure is a compelling reason to give the grant. Not to mention the fact that EMSA put an 800 MHz radio in every hospital and comm. center under the sun in their service area. Who knows - maybe EMSA footed the bill for the difference between analog in the clear and digital encrypted?

 

[CommShrek]

Could be - but those radios are roughly $5,000 each. Still high....but $3,000 less than you said.

On the Homeland Security Grant Funding - i'm not sure that digital and encrypted is necessary, either - but radio interoperability with the state's largest EMS provider sure is a compelling reason to give the grant. Not to mention the fact that EMSA put an 800 MHz radio in every hospital and comm. center under the sun in their service area. Who knows - maybe EMSA footed the bill for the difference between analog in the clear and digital encrypted?

OK, $5,000 then. Still an outrageous amount of money considering one can buy a multi-band radio for about $300 that offers hundreds of channels with both VHF and UHF capabilities all rolled into one radio. That cost is just crazy, but "big M" wouldn't charge it if they didn't know that government entities would pay it. It's basically boils down to misuse of money by government. A $5,000 radio is kind of like those $600 toilet seats and $400 screwdrivers we used to hear bout the military buying years ago.

I'm still a little confused on the "radio interoperability" thought. Interoperability with who? Themselves? EMSA may be the state's largest single EMS provider but lets not forget, they only operate in the Tulsa and OKC metro areas. What about the rest of the state? All of these smaller EMS agencies and county EMS agencies service those areas. Also, OKC is still on the UHF system, why is it that only Tulsa switched?

Also, they may have gotten radio's to every hospital but they didn't get one to every comm center. All that really happened is one more extra radio was added to the mix that basically EMSA forces people to use if they want to communicate with them. It was much nicer to just switch the channel on a radio already in a fire truck that was on a scene to give a pt report to the arriving units.

My only point with the original post is that I have hard time listening to EMSA saying they are going broke and asking for subsidies when what needs to happen is for people to start taking a closer look at how EMSA spends thier money. I used the radio as an example since this is a radio forum.

I could also critique the expensive LED lighting they specified on thier new trucks. Yes, they look nice (if they had a more aggresive flash pattern) but to put all LED lighting around the truck is very expensive. Lower maitenance is what places like Whelen are going to push. The truth is, halogen bulbs don't get changed that often and strobe tubes get changed even less. I would be interested to know what a halogen KKK lighting package would cost vs. the LED package currently specified for the trucks. It would be a significant savings of thousands per truck. Multiplied by the number of trucks in the fleet adds up to a lot of money.

Sorry for the book.

 

[mfolta1]

there are a lot of nice people over at emsa. i have met several and i praise the emt's for their service to me and my fellow citizens,however, whoever chose to spend dhs money for a high dollar radio system may have made a mistake. i thought dhs money was supposed to be used to protect us in the event of an emergency or get us better equipped for one. i have heard one distracting story and that is the money had to be spent by certain date or it was no longer available. the only reason i can think of the need for encryption is because terrorists etc would not be able to hear emergency services dispatched and responses etc. if they were able to they could disrupt them in route or something. i know that if we are under attack i dont want terrorists etc being able to hear ems,police services etc and have an opportunity to disrupt them while they are in route to an incident. just my thoughts but ive gotta say 5000.00 radios and bright lights seem a bit unreasonable...

 

[iamhere300]

Emsa

OK, $5,000 then. Still an outrageous amount of money considering one can buy a multi-band radio for about $300 that offers hundreds of channels with both VHF and UHF capabilities all rolled into one radio. That cost is just crazy, but "big M" wouldn't charge it if they didn't know that government entities would pay it. It's basically boils down to misuse of money by government. A $5,000 radio is kind of like those $600 toilet seats and $400 screwdrivers we used to hear bout the military buying years ago.
.

So much misinformation. Yes, you can buy a ham radio that is dual band,
and offers lots of channels for about $300.00. Comparing that radio to
a P25 capable is sort of like comparing a cell phone to a CB. Lots of differences.

Using a HAM radio for most public safety people is nuts, the durabilty, quality,
and ease of use is all lacking for your normal public safety user.

I'm still a little confused on the "radio interoperability" thought. Interoperability with who? Themselves? EMSA may be the state's largest single EMS provider but lets not forget, they only operate in the Tulsa and OKC metro areas. What about the rest of the state? All of these smaller EMS agencies and county EMS agencies service those areas. Also, OKC is still on the UHF system, why is it that only Tulsa switched?

Also, they may have gotten radio's to every hospital but they didn't get one to every comm center. All that really happened is one more extra radio was added to the mix that basically EMSA forces people to use if they want to communicate with them. It was much nicer to just switch the channel on a radio already in a fire truck that was on a scene to give a pt report to the arriving units.

.

I suspect you will find that the state still requires them to maintain a VHF radio.

My only point with the original post is that I have hard time listening to EMSA saying they are going broke and asking for subsidies when what needs to happen is for people to start taking a closer look at how EMSA spends thier money. I used the radio as an example since this is a radio forum.

I agree with this point. If EMSA cannot operate, then maybe a competitor can.

I could also critique the expensive LED lighting they specified on thier new trucks. Yes, they look nice (if they had a more aggresive flash pattern) but to put all LED lighting around the truck is very expensive. Lower maitenance is what places like Whelen are going to push. The truth is, halogen bulbs don't get changed that often and strobe tubes get changed even less. I would be interested to know what a halogen KKK lighting package would cost vs. the LED package currently specified for the trucks. It would be a significant savings of thousands per truck. Multiplied by the number of trucks in the fleet adds up to a lot of money.

Chuckle... I think you are stretching now. LED lighting is the future. Although
strobes do not need to be changed as much as halogen, they still need to be
changed, and often enough. LEDs are more reliable, take less current draw,
(Smaller alternators, smaller wire, less cost) and are more effective. I love
my LED's.

 

[greenthumb]

I'm still a little confused on the "radio interoperability" thought. Interoperability with who? Themselves? EMSA may be the state's largest single EMS provider but lets not forget, they only operate in the Tulsa and OKC metro areas.

And that is precisely my point. I most of EMSA's calls for service come from communities that are on, or whom are about to be on, 800 MHz system. It only makes sense for EMSA to follow suit.

What about the rest of the state? All of these smaller EMS agencies and county EMS agencies service those areas

I guess I am missing your point. If the rest of the state was on 800 MHz, it would make sense, but it's not. UHF and VHF conventional serve these rural areas just fine and there is no need to give those EMS providers 800 MHz equipment - it wouldn't be "interoperable," which is the goal of the grant.

Also, OKC is still on the UHF system, why is it that only Tulsa switched?

I'm sure that they are doing it in "phases" and that OKC switching isn't too far behind.

Also, they may have gotten radio's to every hospital but they didn't get one to every comm center.

Are you sure about this? It was my understanding that every agency that is served by EMSA got an 800 MHz radio put into their communications center.

All that really happened is one more extra radio was added to the mix that basically EMSA forces people to use if they want to communicate with them.

Explicate on this statement - i'm not sure I follow. If they *give* you a radio to communicate with them isn't it better than:

a) Not being able to communicate with them at all.

-or-

b) Having to purchase one of those (relatively expensive) radios?

It was much nicer to just switch the channel on a radio already in a fire truck that was on a scene to give a pt report to the arriving units.

I'm sure it was - but what schedule is everyone in the area supposed to follow when migrating to newer radio technologies? From what I am gathering from your statements, everyone should follow the schedule of the slowest/poorest agency in the area - "We can't afford to go to radio system X, so neither should they!" I'm not sure I agree.

My only point with the original post is that I have hard time listening to EMSA saying they are going broke and asking for subsidies when what needs to happen is for people to start taking a closer look at how EMSA spends thier money. I used the radio as an example since this is a radio forum.

To be blunt, it was a bad example since it was grant money, or mostly grant money, that funded the upgrades.

Multiplied by the number of trucks in the fleet adds up to a lot of money.

LEDs are "sexy" these days, however, they are about the only product that I have seen out there that is plainly visible during the day. Typically, the flashing headlights gets drivers' attention during the daytime, not the lightbars. LEDs give the lightbar MUCH, MUCH more visibility during the daytime. I think that it is a good investment for safety and visibility and I would endorse the LED purchase.

 

[AsstChief]

greenthumb is correct EMSA gave radios to all agencies they service that was not currently on the 800 system and also gave radios to those agencies that border EMSA's response area. My fire department was given a radio to put in our first responder truck and we run with EMSA. I also know that Mannford was given a radio by EMSA and they only border EMSA's response area. The grant that made all this possible was great. My department still uses the VHF radios because there is no way we could afford the 800 radios. This grant made it possible for us to at least have one radio to communicate not only with EMSA, but also mutual aid fire departments that are on the 800 system. We also have access to all the RMA and SMA channels.

 

[mfolta1]

hey asst chief, just an idea here, you could always buy some used spectras off the net or possibly from a dept. i did and got them for about 200.00 each, thats with control head and all.you can find the old stx's for around 100.00 and use them as handhelds... just an idea. i understand how budgets are though.

 

[smoken731]

Speaking of grants....

http://www.kotv.com/main/home/stories.asp?whichpage=1&id=70494

 

[BigMacFire]

Hmmm

OK --

First I am wondering if anyone has bothered to look at the "Reference" side of the site- and are only spending time here in the forums....

If you look closely - you will see that ALL of the City of Tulsa's services are on 800 mHz - not just EMSA. All of the city agencies are - to include police, sheriff fire and EMS, public works - everone....

It wasn't just EMSA - that switched - but all agencies. And from what I gather - they all banded together - and put forth a proposal for grant money toward the new radio system.


You ask why EMSA's OKC operations haven't switched?? Well, again - check your references. All OKC public safety agencies are migrating over to 800 mHz.

 

[K5MAR]

EMSA is not a Public Safety Agency. From the EMSA website:

1. Who owns EMSA?

EMSA is an independent trust authority, an extension of the City of Tulsa and Oklahoma City governments. EMSA contracts with a private ambulance service to provide emergency medical care and dispatching.

10. How is EMSA funded?

EMSA is primarily funded through users' fees. The EMSA model ensures that individuals who utilize our service -- not all taxpayers in the community -- carry most of the financial burden for supporting our operations. EMSA also receives small subsidies from communities served.

So while it might make sense that EMSA use the same radio system as the Public Safety Agencies, it's not a given. There are plenty of other private or quasi-private ambulance services that have their own freqs and radios.

Mark S.