Encryption options in Chinese Dual Band DMR radios

[human8472]

In my research it seems like the DMR radios from Chinese manufactures all seem to implement their own form of encryption. This seems to range from very basic (256 different codes) to enhanced (40-bit and billions of combinations). What does appear constant is that the encryption only works between radios of the same type. Outside of Motorola TRBO (which is proprietary) they all appear to be different implementations.

Can anyone who owns these radios and has any experience with their specific form of encryption talk to how well it works? I am especially interested in the more enhanced encryption where a hexadecimal key has to be entered on both radios and is something larger than the basic 256 choices I have seen in some radios. I have read the manuals and most only describe the encryption option as the ability to turn it on/off.

I know some might say go with Motorola but they are just outside of my range (when you figure the cost of programming software, RIB interface, etc ..). Besides I wold like something that is Front Pad Programmable (FPP) and if there is an option for a Motorola that is FPP I am sure it is very expensive (please correct me if I am wrong).

These are the radios I am interested in and would love to find out what encryption capabilities they actually support.

Radioddity GD-77
TYT MD-2017
Ailunce HD-1
Anytone AT-D868UV

Lastly, I don't want to start an encryption on HAM frequencies war. I understand the FCC rules on encryption. I am just trying to find inexpensive radios that have the options I am interested in. Thank you

 

[N4GIX]

The GD-77 manual only indicates that encrypt is available, but nowhere specifies what type encryption is used. At a guess though it will be simple 256 encrypt/decrypt.

The MD-2017 manual has nearly identical language used in the GD-77 manual, so once again we are left guessing.

 

[human8472]

Response from Ailunce

I do not have the Ailunce HD-1 but I did send an email to their support email asking if it supported encryption and this was the response.

"Basic encryption 4-bits,enhanced encryption 32-bits, thanks"

So if this is true that would mean over 4 billion possible permutations for a code. That would be good enough for me even though it wold probably only work with another HD-1.

 

[N4GIX]

Sorry about my earlier reply. It appears that the encryption is more limited than I guessed:

 

[human8472]

Thanks for posting that image. At least it does not appear to be limited to 256 numbers. Even if the 32 and 64 refer to the number of characters in the length of the key that is not that bad. Certainly no 256 AES but better than just 256 numbers. What other options are under the Privacy Type dropdown?

 

[N4GIX]

What other options are under the Privacy Type dropdown?

Um, "None?"

 

[human8472]

Haaa .. well thanks for posting that. If you look at the keys that are present they do work out to 32-bit numbers in binary so that could mean they are 32-bit keys. A whole heck of a lot better then just 256 different keys.

 

[human8472]

The MD-2017 manual has nearly identical language used in the GD-77 manual, so once again we are left guessing.

I am going to pull the trigger and purchase two GD-77 radios. I will test and report what I have found regarding the encryption. I also have an MD-390 and will test that will the GD-77 but I do not hold out much hope for compatibility between them as far as encryption goes. It would be great if someone who had two MD-2017 units could test the encryption capabilities and report back.

 

[RayAir]

I am going to pull the trigger and purchase two GD-77 radios. I will test and report what I have found regarding the encryption. I also have an MD-390 and will test that will the GD-77 but I do not hold out much hope for compatibility between them as far as encryption goes. It would be great if someone who had two MD-2017 units could test the encryption capabilities and report back.

The MD380 basic privacy (16-bit) will work with Connect System radios. Can't test Tytera 128 bit privacy as my CS radio doesn't have it.

Note- The "128 bit enhanced privacy" isn't really any better than basic privacy.

 

[pdxmedic]

GD-77 and AT-D868UV encryption are both noncompatible with MotoTRBO / MD-380. Anyone know if the MD-2017 is compatible?

 

[WA4RLF]

Code

I have an enhanced code to put in my tyt md2017. How would I put it in the cps? How would I find the value?

 

[Mathiew170]

.

RESEARCH made by me in 2018(in ONE week)
i have searched a lot through ebay and the radio manufacturers official site and the most important factors to my search was 1-range 2-encryption and security 3-price 4-dual band (VHF & UHF)
at first you come up with gd 77 of radioddity company
its price below 100 us dollars and the encryption system is in 2 mode as you see in picture 1 & 2
firts mode is 32 bit or 8 bit BCD code (BDC:Binary Coded Decimal)
second mode is 64 bit or 16 bit BCD code
in the 3rd picture you see that you only can choose 16 character to generate password it also shows that you have to choose in HEX system so you have to pick between 0-9 and a-f
it is a good decent radio (gd 77)
lets go to HD 1 MADE by retevis company
the range is almost 20 miles in digital mode (VERY WELL)based on this search:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7PGjjWO14w
also clear sound in that range
the price below 200 US dollars
and the encryption system is in 2 mode:
16 bit or 4 BCD code (basic)
128 bit or 32 BCD code (enhanced)
so lets talk about cracking these encryption system of dmr radios
if you use a core i5 processor and the time of cracking each character would be 3 miliseconds
then for
8 bit you need 0.2 sec
16 bit you need 65 sec
for 32 bit you need 49 days
and for 128 bit you need more than 100 years
CONSIDER this that this was calculated by the device we guess amateurs have in access
dont know about governments or intel agencies
in hd1 you can chrage the battery itself without the radio by the stand charging place they made for it
lets go to package items
both companies include us programming cable which is important
the kind of support both companies provide by their official website and how much time the spend on the design of their software is sufficient
THE following chine companies does not worth it based on the mentioned subjects above:
TYT
HYTERA
BOAFENG
they have either encryption and security problems or dual band or price of the radio and features yo get
and MOST important
LACK of support by their official website

 

[Forts]

There is much more involved though than just keys per second in a brute force attack. What is the algo they use, and how does it work? What is the plaintext that you are cracking against? Obviously if voice security is that important that these radios should be immediately ruled out in favour of used Motorola or Hytera gear. Moto Enhanced Privacy is somewhere around 1.3 trillion combinations and it compatible with Hytera. Hytera models can be found with even stronger proprietary encryption up to the standard AES-256. I know you are looking to keeps costs down but I guess you have to weigh the balances. Myself.... if I was in your position requiring a cheap-ish dual band DMR I'd likely look at the MD-UV380. I wasn't a fan of the 2017, and while the GD-77 can be a nice little radio it can also be very quirky (and updates/fixes seem to have fallen off of Radioddity's radar these days). Even if you go with a radio with a weaker encryption, there are smart ways to go about it... IE regular key changes. This can even be done in advance. Program the same channel into a zone 16 times, each one assigned to a different key. Every day/week/month whatever go to the next channel and work from a fresh key.

 

[badjob]

So nobody is cracking this encryption publicly and its not standard motrrrrrrrrrrrrbo encryption either. Appears to me your communications would be safe from someone who can't program or isn't the government.

The bigger issue is what radio is compatible to what radio? I have a GD77 but if I want an MD380 or that fancy anytone, none of the radios will talk to each other? What is compatible to what?

 

[khaytsus]

The bigger issue is what radio is compatible to what radio? I have a GD77 but if I want an MD380 or that fancy anytone, none of the radios will talk to each other? What is compatible to what?

I assume you mean specific to encryption? Without it, they're all Tier 1 and Tier 2 radios and will talk to each other just fine.

For giggles I played with it on my GD77 and MD380 and it was just garbled mess. I read someone say that some of the "keys overlap" but I have a hard time believing that. But I just played a few times just for giggles and got tired of messing with it.

 

[Tinkerer]

The MD380 basic privacy (16-bit) will work with Connect System radios. Can't test Tytera 128 bit privacy as my CS radio doesn't have it.

Note- The "128 bit enhanced privacy" isn't really any better than basic privacy.

Hey ray. Can you explain why is not really any better and what are the options to improve it? Thanks mate