mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
The man makes a good point.
FCC authorizes digital on AM
- Thread starter ka3jjz
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The man makes a good point.
billsblots
Member
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- Oct 21, 2003
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- 97
My last car did not even have an external radio antenna and was horrible on MW/AM. Auto industry perceives, probably correctly, that buyers don't want to contaminate their car's profile with a whip antenna sticking up somewhere. Can't see that working very well for digital. For some of us with age, car radios worked really, really well for AM DX, better than most anything inside the house unless you had a special radio shack with longwire or loop antenna.
N8FNR
Member
Most excellent rant. Could not agree more.
Yeah, I know what you mean. About forty years ago I couldn't even access a Chicago repeater in Chicago because of all the RF floating around (I had to drive back out to the 'burbs to talk to anyone). More recently I remember when L.E.D. lights came out--they spewed out so much garbage hams complained to the FCC until the situation was cleaned up!
At least partly thanks to modern tech, a lot of cars have their antennas imbedded in the front or rear windshield. I've also seen cars with what looks like a miniature "shark fin" looking device on their roofs (presumably antennas?).
I still enjoy AM broadcast band DXing out of the car--even with modern cars--so the car manufacturers must be doing something right...
I actually enjoy the programing that MW radio currently has, lots of good talk, even though the really big guys (Rush) in my area have switched to FM broadcast band only (locally).
I wonder if the MW stations really do switch to digital, how much we'll lose from kids not playing with crystal radios anymore.
I assume the "Shark fin" antenna is how hackers can get into your cars operating system, and the car companies can see "how their product is being used"
Thanks
Joel
I wonder if the MW stations really do switch to digital, how much we'll lose from kids not playing with crystal radios anymore.
I assume the "Shark fin" antenna is how hackers can get into your cars operating system, and the car companies can see "how their product is being used"
Thanks
Joel
I think that's a separate issue: I've heard it mentioned that many modern vehicles somehow connect via the cellular 'phone network to update the computer system(-s) in the car, and it's also been said that via this methodology car brakes & steering--even turning the engine off--can be accessed by law enforcement and hackers (and allegedly hackers have used this to cause car accidents). I'm not sure how far to believe this, though...
I did see a quick video of it occurring on TV years ago, the hacker was sitting in the car to demonstrate it, he slowly applied the brakes and pulled the car over.
is another video of it.
Anyway, that's what I think the antenna is for, among possibly other things.
Thanks
Joel
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
The 'shark fin' antennas you see on many vehicles are for AM/FM (usually a whip off the back of the fin, but not always), GPS for navigation, satellite for XM/Sirius, and cellular for built in cell systems (OnStar).
As for hacking, yeah, I'm sure it can happen. I know it's been proven, but I don't see it as a big issue.
The OnStar system can do several things for the benefit of public safety. OnStar usually has a booth at the APCO conference and does demos.
They can do a number of things, including some of the following:
Activate hazard lights without any indication inside the vehicle they are turned on. (good for identifying a specific vehicle and allowing law enforcement/dispatchers/OnStar to confirm they are on the right vehicle.
Track car in real time via GPS/Cellular
Lock/Unlock doors.
They can even disable the car in such a way that it basically goes out of gear and coasts to a stop, yet retains power steering and brakes.
I do know that on GM vehicles, OnStar can run vehicle diagnostics. My dad had a check engine lamp come on in his truck years ago, and he was able to hit the OnStar button and they read the code for him. Nothing critical and he was able to continue on his way.
Cars like Teslas can have their operating system updated as well as diagnostic files uploaded. My sister has one and it's not uncommon to have them do it in the middle of the night when the car isn't used. But the system has enough memory to load the new software without activating it until the vehicle is not in use.
One of the tricks she plays on my brother in law is to wait until he is driving it, then she can pull up an app on her phone and change HVAC settings, radio/music, etc. She can also track the car in real time. Usually when she messes with the HVAC/Radio, she can watch him pull over on the side of the road, then she gets a phone call….
Yep... I'm thinking of a 67 VW beetle (way easier to work on) , lots of others are thinking the same way.
On Teslas, they have a camera that points at the driver.
Any aftermarket mods to fix this available? (not the tesla, but aftermarket car computer systems, without the add-ons).
Thanks
Joel
Here is a perspective that may amuse you. My wife's late model Nissan has HD radio for the AM band. We sometimes tune in to WWFD, on 820 AM. They have the experimental digital audio broadcast. I also observed the AM signal from BEFORE they went digital.
Most of what WWFD claims as their "coverage area" is spotty. For example, if there are power lines on both sides of the road we travel on, the signal gets very intermittent. When it works, it sounds good, mostly a monophonic signal. I'm told that if I drive around in Frederick Maryland that I will pick up a stereo signal as well. I haven't had much reason to travel in that area. The coverage for the stereo signal is pretty small (basically the metro area of Frederick MD). At night the signal is clearly audible on a conventional radio, but the signal distortion is too high to listen to in the car.
The AM signal didn't suddenly disappear. It wasn't all that good at night. The pattern may be working against me. I don't know. But during the day, the marginal areas had a listenable signal where the digital signal was mostly in and out.
I think that once again, the FCC has chosen a DAB protocol that can't do well with mutipath or other background noise. They could have looked at DRM, which was designed for this purpose. But, just like the proverbial Murphy, if the FCC can make a wrong decision, it will.
Most of what WWFD claims as their "coverage area" is spotty. For example, if there are power lines on both sides of the road we travel on, the signal gets very intermittent. When it works, it sounds good, mostly a monophonic signal. I'm told that if I drive around in Frederick Maryland that I will pick up a stereo signal as well. I haven't had much reason to travel in that area. The coverage for the stereo signal is pretty small (basically the metro area of Frederick MD). At night the signal is clearly audible on a conventional radio, but the signal distortion is too high to listen to in the car.
The AM signal didn't suddenly disappear. It wasn't all that good at night. The pattern may be working against me. I don't know. But during the day, the marginal areas had a listenable signal where the digital signal was mostly in and out.
I think that once again, the FCC has chosen a DAB protocol that can't do well with mutipath or other background noise. They could have looked at DRM, which was designed for this purpose. But, just like the proverbial Murphy, if the FCC can make a wrong decision, it will.
The bug would cost a lot less as well as being easier to work on and parts are not a problem
ka3jjz
Wiki Admin Emeritus
It's not just making the wrong decision, it's the depth of the pockets. HD Radio has lots of commercial (read: money) makers while DRM, in the United States, isn't even out of the proverbial gate. The FCC has consistently ignored where DRM is in regular use, such as parts of Western Europe (there is even a fork on DRM called DRM+ that is used in what they use for their FM broadcast band). The study and research has already been done (as a practical matter, as DRM is an internationally recognized standard (per ITU)). The wikipedia article on DRM is very interesting....Mike
JerryX
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- Nov 9, 2017
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- 76
It's worse than that. In times of yore, the FCC managed the EM spectrum in trust for the American people. Now it's falling all over itself to sell off as much spectrum as possible to the highest bidders, which is anticompetitive because with the bidding reaching well into the billions of dollars, only large, well-established companies with deep pockets can afford to bid. This is locking the small guys out completely.
Yeah, those old car radios were amazing. I still remember the ones with tubes. A vibrator was necessary for producing AC so the voltage could be increased enough through a transformer to power the plates of the tubes. The only noise I remember hearing was the buzz of the vibrator, which wasn't objectionable. Otherwise the radio was pretty quiet between stations. I once had a summer job taking inventory for a supplier of GM parts. One of the other inventory takers was assigned the gruesome task of smashing brand-new car radios with a sledge hammer. He was a radio buff, and told me it nearly brought tears to his eyes.
Thanks to my laptop I can't do any AM DXing at all here unless I shut down the computer, otherwise it obliterates the entire MW band. AM DX is fine at night with the computer off, but so many stations are using network feeds that I never hear a proper station ID, so they could be anywhere in North America. There's only one AM station in my vicinity, and has nothing to offer aside from commercials and so-called oldies that only go back as far as the 80s. Considering all that, and lacking a radio with digital AM support, I might as well forget about AM radio altogether.
MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
Yep. We've seen the conglomeration of the wireless cartels dwindle down from 4 carriers to 3, soon it will be 2. A duopoly and we all know how well that works out for the consumer. "Raising prices to optimum cockbag levels" while providing horrendous service, and no accountability to any authority. A true consequence free environment. And we're paying for it.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yeah, like WB9YBM said, some of the new ones are pretty good too. 2018 Ford F350. AM radio side works great. Easily doing BCB DX with it in the evenings. I get a clear channel AM station out on the AZ/NM border clear as a bell out here on the coast.
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