Finally a decent patch between OHP and TPD

[Freqed]

I heard just a little bit of a search early this morning (1 am) and from what I understood, I guess OHP started a chase and ended up in a neighborhood around 51st and Peoria/Lewis. After TPD arrived to help a Tac ID was opened and a Patch with OHP units on scene and their Dispatcher was suscessful. Didn't hear if they got anyone or not.

 

[woodyrr]

Do OHP units in the Tulsa area not have TPD Talkgroups in their radios and TPD units not have OHP TGs in theirs so that either can instantly communicate with the other?

 

[okla-lawman]

Tpd and Ohp would not traditionally have to patch. Usually they would senf then to a RMA channel and talk. BUT there is an exception. IF they can not get a break in the action sufficent for all the units involved to switch they will patch. It is not a big deal. A few years ago we were out on an armed and barricaded subject. I deployed my officers. We were trying to set up a tactical so we could resume radio traffic on the normal channel. I had dispatchers, watch commander and so forth requestin us to do so but I refused untill all my officers were safe and we could safely jump to a tactical. It is the same thing.

 

[woodyrr]

I guess this illustrates how naïve I am about how this stuff works. I’d like to take this opportunity to learn something. I went ballistic when I found out that Oklahoma City selected an EDACS radio system despite the established Smartnet statewide system. The technical issues of integrating those systems, I understand, are in process. This incident, on the other hand, makes me wonder about the non-technical issues arising from mutual aid in an environment when true communications interoperability exists.

I have listened to countless pursuits, searches, and large fires that involved multiple agencies and was amazed that the chaos and confusion that inevitably accompanies these events is exacerbated by agencies trying to coordinate with other agencies through their dispatchers who use the phone to contact other dispatchers. This occurs even when I know that the responding units have the capability to directly communicate with the other agency resulting in delayed responses (holes in a perimeter, for example) and added confusion. I wonder if when OKC becomes communications interoperable, there is some sort of insurmountable barrier that will prevent metro agencies from working out mutual aid agreements that will allow public safety officials from different jurisdictions to rapidly and temporarily integrate their operations in the interest of most effectively protecting life and property instead of each agency playing its own sub game.

Using what was posted about this incident as an example, I would have thought that when OHP called TPD for assistance, all TPD units responding including a TPD supervisor would switch their radios to whatever talkgroup that OHP was already using for the search and then start that way. While enroute by listening to the search, they would get a feel for what is going on and would be up to speed and ready to help once they arrived on the scene. I can understand switching to a RMA talkgroup if an incident becomes protracted so that the primary channels can be kept clear. In the initial portion of an emergency mutual aid incident, however, I’d have thought that it would be second nature to switch to the lead agency’s talkgroup, integrate, and get the bad guy. It is apparent that I must not have a very secure grip on reality.

 

[CommShrek]

Just keep in mind one thing. No matter how good or "interoperable" you get the radios, they depend on one critical thing to work. Someone with some common sense and basic radio knowledge is required. Unfortunately, this rules out most of the hillbillies on these rural fire departments. It rules out a lot of dispatchers, officers, firefighters, etc. that aren't used to working large incidents and STRUGLE at best when they are working small ones.

 

[Freqed]

Just keep in mind one thing. No matter how good or "interoperable" you get the radios, they depend on one critical thing to work. Someone with some common sense and basic radio knowledge is required. Unfortunately, this rules out most of the hillbillies on these rural fire departments. It rules out a lot of dispatchers, officers, firefighters, etc. that aren't used to working large incidents and STRUGLE at best when they are working small ones.

Not to mention the Politics involved between different agencies, Some are reluctant to let another agency get involved in how they "do Things" while on an active call. Add to this the confusion of each agency having their own 10 code and the trouble amounts two fold.

 

[Chaos703]

Don't forget PRIDE.

I point back to that pursuit a year or so ago that ran up and down 169 about six times before finally ending in Bartlesville. A TPD captain got on OHP's TG and YELLED at the troopers, demanding that they BACK OFF! Instead of backing off, OHP dropped out until the TPD captain called the OHP lieutenant and straightened things out (I assume he had to apologize).

I've always figured they use the mutual aid TGs because it's kind of a no man's land in which no one's worried about protocol.

I guess it's best to say that there is a thin line between pride and politics.

 

[woodyrr]

I saw a great deal of territoriality when I was peripherally involved in communications back in the taut string between soup cans age. I was hoping that since OHP and TPD had been on the same radio system for some time, they had, perhaps, developed a working relationship that transcended much of that pettiness.

Midwest City is often called to work traffic crashes on I-40 and once in a great while, an OHP Trooper will switch over to MWC’s frequency and coordinate. When it happens, which is seldom, the result is a thing of beauty. Lanes that need to be blocked are blocked; Ramps that need to be closed are closed; Traffic that needs to be diverted is diverted; the crash is worked effectively and efficiently; And everyone goes home in one piece. When they don’t talk, it can get chaotic.

Perhaps, referring to the previous post, had the OHP troopers involved in TPD’s pursuit been on the talk group that TPD was using for the pursuit, they would have been able to hear the TPD Captain directing the pursuit and recognized his frustration and adjusted their response accordingly before he lost his composure. Just speculation without any facts, but that’s the most enjoyable kind.