Fluorescent lights and Shortwave Listening

Status
Not open for further replies.

n2pqq

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,017
I am thinking about putting in some fluorescent lights in the basement . Am I correct in saying as long as the lights are off and the ballast is OK there should be no interference.

Does anyone have fluorescent lights in there home ? Does it have any effect on your shortwave listening ?
 

Thayne

Member
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
2,145
If they are off they won't affect anything.
I'ts the nature of fluorescent lights to cause RFI.

It is worst on the freqs between the AM broadcast band to about the FM broadcast band.

It doesnt bother UHF or 800 too much; also because most of those bands use FM.
 

LarrySC

Member
Joined
Feb 9, 2001
Messages
2,089
Location
Greenville, SC
DIMMER SWITCHES!!!!!!! Dont forget the dimmer switches. Worse than Flo Lights. TOUCH LAMPS!!!!!!! Dont forget the touch lamps. Bad Bad. Last but not least are Sub Harmonics from the cable TV co's. Will make very bad spikes -0- thru 30MHz. Good Luck, Larry
 

n2pqq

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,017
Just going to use the fluorescent lights . No dimmer switch or touch lamp.
Have no control over the TV cable, no BPL yet.


Thank you for the replies.

Fred
 

CapStar362

Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
618
Location
GA, USA!
the ballast is the main cause for AM RFI. Fluorescent tubes are also EMF Magnets, they will soak up your cellphone, transciever signals like a dry sponge in a glass of water
 

n2pqq

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
1,017
CapStar362 said:
the ballast is the main cause for AM RFI. Fluorescent tubes are also EMF Magnets, they will soak up your cellphone, transciever signals like a dry sponge in a glass of water


But as long as the light is off there is no problem correct ?
 
N

N_Jay

Guest
CapStar362 said:
the ballast is the main cause for AM RFI.

Yes. (Well close enough. RFI is neither AM, FM or any-M, it is just Interference. But since AM is more succeoatble to RFI, I can see how it gets labled as such.) ;)

CapStar362 said:
Fluorescent tubes are also EMF Magnets, they will soak up your cellphone, transciever signals like a dry sponge in a glass of water

NO! (Where do people come up with this stuff?) :confused:
 
Last edited:

Radiorick

Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2004
Messages
537
http://www.scif.com/safety/losscontrol/Article.asp?ArticleID=320

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fluorescent Lighting - Ballasts: Why You Should Upgrade
Ballasts are an essential component of any fluorescent lighting system, providing a controlled current to the fluorescent tubes. In an office or industrial setting, the standard type of ballast used for the last few decades is an electro-magnetic type, which unfortunately produces a number of negative side-effects:

They operate at 60Hz, or cycles per second - the frequency of the AC voltage they run on. This means that each lamp switches on and off 120 times per second, resulting in a barely perceptible flicker and a noticeable hum (sounding like a buzzing low ‘A’ note on a piano). About 25% of the population is sensitive to ballast flicker and hum and actually can become physically ill, with symptoms such as headaches, nausea, itching and burning eyes, tension, eye fatigue, and general fatigue.
Operating at 60Hz, they may cause a stroboscopic effect with any machinery which has parts, such as pulleys or gears, running at speeds that are a multiple of 60Hz. The stroboscopic effect will cause the machine to appear motionless, which could be a deadly hazard.
The most commonly used electro-magnetic ballast, the rapid-start type, draws 2-3 watts even if the lamp is switched off, a sizable expense in a building with many lamps. This ballast draws current even if the fluorescent tubes are removed.
They give off excessive EMF (Electro-Magnetic Fields), considered a potential cancer-causing agent.
Any of the electro-magnetic ballasts produced prior to 1978 contain PCB’s - a known carcinogen.
Not energy-efficient, with a relatively short life span of about 10 years.
During the final 30% of their lifespan they consume the same amount of energy, while producing far lower light levels.
In recent years, a new solid-state electronic ballast has become available to the American market. This ballast is lightweight, generates very little heat, and operates at about 25,000Hz, rather than the standard 60Hz. This last detail, high frequency operation, effectively eliminates all flicker and hum, removing any associated health concerns.

Some of the advantages of the solid state electronic ballast:

Excellent energy efficiency. Produces more light, while using 25-30% less energy. This, coupled with rebate programs being offered by most utilities, makes upgrading all ballasts a very cost-effective move.
When switching to these ballasts, it is also necessary to change to T-8 fluorescent tubes, which are a full-spectrum type – providing excellent, daylight-like color rendering.
These ballasts can also be purchased in a type which are dimmable, enabling office users to lower light to personal comfort levels, which will pay off in further energy savings. This is highly recommended, where practical, in any office environment.
High frequency operation eliminates bothersome flicker and hum, improving the work environment and saving the company untold hours of lost sick time and worker fatigue.
Very low EMF emissions.
Long life - these ballasts and their fluorescent tubes will double the lifespan of their older counterparts, reducing associated maintenance costs.
To verify which type of ballast is currently installed in a given fixture, without having to take it apart, a flicker checker is available through Motorola (call 1-800-453-1506 for information on obtaining this inexpensive tool, known as a flicker checker device [FCD]). Spin the flicker checker on a flat surface underneath the fluorescent lamp in question. If the ballast is the older, electro-magnetic type, you will see a stroboscopic effect appear as it spins. If the fixture has the high-frequency, electronic type ballast, you will see no effect on the flicker checker.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"Information or recommendations contained in these articles were obtained from sources believed to be reliable at the date of publication. Information is only advisory and does not presume to be exhaustive or inclusive of all workplace hazards or situations."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The above evaluations and/or recommendations are for general guidance only and should not be relied upon for legal compliance purposes. They are based solely on the information provided to us and relate only to those conditions specifically discussed. We do not make any warranty, expressed or implied, that your workplace is safe or healthful or that it complies with all laws, regulations or standards.
 

CapStar362

Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
618
Location
GA, USA!
N_Jay said:
CapStar362 said:
Fluorescent tubes are also EMF Magnets, they will soak up your cellphone, transciever signals like a dry sponge in a glass of water

NO! (Where do people come up with this stuff?) :confused:


then tell me why in my hanger at my job, when the Fluorescent lights are on, my cell phone signal gets killed the instant they are turned on. turn them off, my cell phone gets a full strength signal.. turn the lights back on...... signal goes bye bye.
 
N

N_Jay

Guest
CapStar362 said:
then tell me why in my hanger at my job, when the Fluorescent lights are on, my cell phone signal gets killed the instant they are turned on. turn them off, my cell phone gets a full strength signal.. turn the lights back on...... signal goes bye bye.

It's called interference.

The measure is Signal to Noise.

The NOISE goes up, and teh SIGNAL stays the same, therefor the Sgnal to Noise ration goes down and the signal becomes harder to receive.

To use an analogy that anyone (well almost anyone) can understand.

A flashlight seems dimmer during the day. At might it lights up objects for quite a distance, but durring the day you would have to look right at it to even see if it is on.

Did the sun soak up the flashlight bean like a dry sponge in a glass of water???? :confused:
 

rhutch

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
569
Location
Ontario
I like the sales pitch for the electronic ballasts.

"EMF is considered a potential cancer causing agent"

You're getting more EMF reading this.

"Any of the electro-magnetic ballasts produced prior to 1978 contain PCB’s - a known carcinogen.
Not energy-efficient, with a relatively short life span of about 10 years. ":

Now this is just plain funny, You have to injest the PCB's ,so please don't eat or lick your ballasts. As for the second point it kinda contradicts the first. How many ballasts are around from 1978.

What are the draw backs of the elctronic ballasts, hmm I wonder why it doesn't say????
 

wesct

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2005
Messages
764
Location
Connecticut
"Any of the electro-magnetic ballasts produced prior to 1978 contain PCB’s - a known carcinogen.
Not energy-efficient, with a relatively short life span of about 10 years. ":

and when its thrown into a landfill, its in your water. funny? i dont think so.

wesct
 

rhutch

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
569
Location
Ontario
What about the heavy metals from the electronic ballasts that will also end up in a land fill and leach out into ground water?

Most of the Ballast produced prior to 1978 have been discarded years ago so that is water under the bridge. Electronic ballasts are still being produced today and thus still being disposed of.

Did I say that they shouldn't be properly disposed of , I don't think so.

You might be interested in all the nasty crap inside your computer, so maybe you should give that up, I didn't think so.

Can you not tell that post is nothing more than sales copy, and do you beleive all the ads you read? I hope you got rid of all the plastic mini blinds in your house because they have lead in them. Shouldn't we question ads? I forgot some just like to blindly follow whatever they are told.

And by the way yea I still think its funny.
 
N

N_Jay

Guest
Early electronic ballasts were also known to cause a lot of RFI due to the higher frequency switching.

Some ballasts were also known for their very bad power factor, which is irrelevant to a home owner, but could cause additional fees to industrial users.

The issue with PCBs in ballasts was a particular problem, since the failure mode was usually overheating which caused leaking and an occasional fire. (sending PCBs into the air.


Yes, that was crappy advertising copy, but it was not completely without merit.
 

Thayne

Member
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
2,145
OK, I guess I will throw in something else.

One problem with electronic ballasts is that when a large building is retrofitted with them, it ALWAYS causes the neutral conductors of the power system of the building to "Run hotter" because of the weird harmonics generated by non-linear loads. This is also exacerbated by the great number of computers added which also screw up the power system in the same way.

In my former job I had to deal many times with burned up neutrals and cooked transformers because of this. Just another thought. . .
 

rhutch

Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2005
Messages
569
Location
Ontario
My point was it was advertising copy and as usual it points out all the bad things with someone elses product and all the good things with thier product.
 
N

N_Jay

Guest
Thayne said:
OK, I guess I will throw in something else.

One problem with electronic ballasts is that when a large building is retrofitted with them, it ALWAYS causes the neutral conductors of the power system of the building to "Run hotter" because of the weird harmonics generated by non-linear loads. This is also exacerbated by the great number of computers added which also screw up the power system in the same way.

In my former job I had to deal many times with burned up neutrals and cooked transformers because of this. Just another thought. . .


Ooops, forgot to mention that.

It was part of the power factor problem with earlyelectronic ballasts.

I think most have corrected it. It was even one of the advertising claims of the companies who first corrected the problem.
 

CapStar362

Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Messages
618
Location
GA, USA!
*WARNING* *WARNING* *WARNING* *WARNING* *WARNING* *WARNING*

DO NOT TRY THIS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND HAVE FLUENT KNOWLEDGE OF THESE BELOW DESCRIBED ELECCTRONIC PARTS!!

I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR STUPIDITY!!




i love making nifty pyro shows with ballasts :D

or wanna have some real fun..............


take a Neon HVPS...the power supply for neon signs, a HVPS from a microwave and the super capacitor and/or a HVPS from a Copy machine or laser printer, or even the Flyback Transformer of a CRT Based monitor or TV

now run the HV side of these things to the input of various things like clock radios, house Fans...... ETC ETC
 

N5RLR

Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
23
Location
Dallas, TX USA
CapStar362 said:
...take a Neon HVPS...the power supply for neon signs, a HVPS from a microwave and the super capacitor and/or a HVPS from a Copy machine or laser printer, or even the Flyback Transformer of a CRT Based monitor or TV

now run the HV side of these things to the input of various things like clock radios, house Fans...... ETC ETC
Or, do as a friend of mine would. He'd take a neon-sign transformer [mehh, 15KV or so], grasp the secondary wires [with gloves] hold them close enough to draw an arc, spead the arc...and light his cigarette [since his hands were holding the wires, you can guess how he got the cigarette into the arc]. :eek:

Just because he was an electrician, he thought he knew what he was doing... :p
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top