FRS activity during / after disasters?

[Pete43]

If your only salvation after a disaster comes down to FRS radios, you are in big trouble. It would be more effective to set a signal fire, or even yell really loud. The range would be about the same.

Most times after a disaster the power is off and everyone mouth is not as big as yours to yell loud enough to be heard.

 

[62Truck]

Most times after a disaster the power is off and everyone mouth is not as big as yours to yell loud enough to be heard.

RR needs a like button

 

[KJ4ZIN]

Yes to vote for good posts I guess, and as far as the topic is concerned, if the OP is looking to use FRS radios, there should be some type of relay in place.

 

[62Truck]

Yes to vote for good posts I guess, and as far as the topic is concerned, if the OP is looking to use FRS radios, there should be some type of relay in place.

Yes I agree. The only issue I see is trying to get the rest of the community involved with it. If you can do it great. What I'd suggest though is not use the rechargeable batteries or don't let the radios sit in the chargers the whole time and frequently do test. And another thing to consider is try and get all the house holds in the community to apply for a GMRS license, that way they can use higher power radios and can reach out farther, and maybe some up can set up a "emergency repeater" that would make more sense to me since most bubble pack radios do FRS/GMRS and I think radioshack now sells a bubble back that does the repeater pairs.

 

[KJ4ZIN]

"The only issue I see is trying to get the rest of the community involved with it." I agree, especially at the neighborhood level there should be some way to interact with the neighborhood watch, the larger Civic Association, and see about organization and how to relay info between groups as needed for emergencies via FRS and other radio services.

 

[motorola_otaku]

Here was my experience with radio during the aftermath of Hurricane Ike:
-Most of the local scanner community went incommunicado due to loss of power and internet access.
-The handful of GMRS repeaters in my area went off the air due to loss of power.
-While there was some limited use of 2-meter simplex at food/water distribution points the emcomm response was largely nonexistent.. this despite widespread failures of the local 800 MHz Smartzone trunk.
-Everybody I knew personally who was involved in radio in some way was more preoccupied with their families and damage to their property than playing radio.

So before you start proposing scenarios where you're sitting in front of a scanner near Ground Zero listening for FRS distress calls, ask yourself this: am I really going to feel like playing radio in an environment where my house is damaged, I have no utilities, and food and gas are scarce? And even if I am, will I have the means to do so without electricity for weeks on end?

 

[LtDoc]

motorola_otaku,
While the thought isn't the most pleasant in the world, your experience is very much the 'norm'. Most of the proposed scenarios are not very realistic, or viable for any extended time periods. Even if equipment is available it takes more time during a disaster type situation to get it set up and running, no matter how well prepared you may be, than in non-disaster type situations.
- 'Doc

 

[62Truck]

motorola_otaku,
While the thought isn't the most pleasant in the world, your experience is very much the 'norm'. Most of the proposed scenarios are not very realistic, or viable for any extended time periods. Even if equipment is available it takes more time during a disaster type situation to get it set up and running, no matter how well prepared you may be, than in non-disaster type situations.
- 'Doc

You're right but he does have a valid point though. And it made me think back when Hurricane Irene hit. I'm involved in races and red cross, and to be honest I had no time to help out, I was dealing with my own issues at home, we had 3 feet of water in out basement so yea that took priority over everything else. But it really doesn't hurt to be prepared though and having some sort of communications plan in place either it be FRS GMRS, CB, MURS, or Ham Radio. When we got wind of Hurricane Irene was heading for us I made sure my batteries for my HT's were charged.

 

[W9NES]

If you have a FRS Base or Handheld you should monitor FRS Channel 1 as this is the factory preset on all of the radios that come from Wal-mart, ect. If you have a jump and run kit as I do again it would be a very good idea to have a FRS handheld in your jump kit.Nothing has been passed yet across the county but they are talking about making FRS Channel 1 as a Emergency Channel for this reason.Now you have a reason to monitor FRS Channel 1 for a base and handheld application.

 

[Rt169Radio]

Well if you have a FRS radio and nothing else,I guess its better than nothing.

By the way,what is the emergency channel for GMRS?

 

[SCPD]

Well if you have a FRS radio and nothing else,I guess its better than nothing.

By the way,what is the emergency channel for GMRS?

462.675 was the emergency frequency but since the rule changes a few years ago there is no emergency frequency any longer.

 

[mmckenna]

Glad to see Motorola_otaku finally said it. In a true disaster, I don't want to be playing radio, I'll be busy looking after my wife, son and the rest of the local family. Work responsibility comes second. Hobby comes dead last.
FRS is too low powered to cover much, unless you are on a hill top.
Unless you use your FRS radios all the time, the batteries are likely dead. Having some AA or AAA alkaline batteries around is a great idea, but are you sure they are still there, haven't been used in the TV remote?
Suggesting that FRS 1 be used in a disaster is a decent idea, but making any sort of suggestion that someone could get help in an emergency starts to create a lot of liability issues.

First responders are not going to be wandering around with FRS radios looking for you. They will have their hands full, and there will be search teams out looking for you. FRS likely won't play into a rescue, unless you are really, really lucky. I'd invest my time, money and effort into other things.

 

[thomast77]

In an emergency situation I would want to have atleast a 2meter handheld and an HF radio. FRS just does not have the range. But if FRS is all you have then it is better than nothing. There are lots of people with these little radios. You might be able to get your message relayed through other users. If you were in a situation where you needed medical attention or something. Some people buy those Wouxun radios and program FRS/GMRS and MURS only in case of emergency. They put out 5w on VHF and 4w on UHF. And they can be connected to an outdoor base antenna for much greater coverage.
Now I know some people on this forum are not going to like this because technically it is illegal. But in a disaster/Survival situation it does not matter.
It would also be a good idea to have some rechargeable batteries and a solar panel charger in case the power is out.

 

[crewcabrob]

Hi Guys,

I posted a similar question about the use of FRS/GMRS radios after an EMP type of disater. I'm not specifically looking to use the radios for emergency purposes, mine is more to stay in contact with my imediate family. My children are all teenagers that are leaving the nest. The first order of business for me is to have them check in so I know they are safe. While I can't count on the GMRS power to reach the 5 miles from where my children are at to my home, as they get closer to home the radios should be able to reach each other. My Motorola radios are the newer type that have an advertised range of 25 and 35 miles. I haven't tested them lately, but the best I could ever get was around 3-4 miles in normal residential with very little hills.

I also want then for scavanger type of missions. I count on localy delivered resources to be completely gone. We will need to head for lakes to collect water for purification/boiling, gather wood for burning and to collect any wild game we might be able to see. My hope is that the radios will be able to play a large role in keeping us connected and safer.

I understand I am planning for what some would call the "worst case senario". Frankly, I would have to agree that I'm going a bit to the extreem on this bleak outlook. I have stock piled AAs for use in all sorts of devices like Steripens, Radios and flashlights. I have rechargables ready to go for the same devices and portable solar pannels for charging. I am also looking at creating a wind charging system too. I'm trying to devise a system to protect them from damaging radiation; hence my other post/thread.

I firmly believe that I need to prepare for disaster events in the following manner: water, shelter, protection, food and communication. Granted, communication is farther down on the list, but I see it as a tool to make sure the rest of the items on my list are more easily aquired.

Rob

 

[vdubb16]

I think the potential use of FRS is underestimated. Personally anyone thats the slightest bit resourceful would yell into a baby monitor if they believed it was their only chance of gaining assistence if the situation called for it. During hurricane Irene, i spent the majority of the storm and some time after at work, 36hours before during and after the landfall right on the coast of NC. i wasnt able to get to my home where my girlfriend and child were due to high water being the roads are relatively low compared to the houses in the area. But among other things there were 2 FRS radios that i left for her aswell as leaving one at my FD which is only a half mile away. If all else failed and she needed help someone would be there to hear it. The use of them werent required but cell phone coverage in the area went down for a couple days along with electricty for 5 days in my neighborhood, many other areas close by were without power up to 2 weeks. In addition some of the area public service repeaters were down during this time to. Luckily i was in touch via CB with a local ham that was midway between work and my home who was aware of my address i checked in with with frequently to see if there was any calls for distress made around my house that he heard. Like some of you mentioned the property and family would be your priority concerns, playing radio is not, in some peoples cases the radio may be their way of doing that. In my case atleast some peace of mind.

The other thing i did notice especially at night time once the skip cleared out. The useable range of the average cb increases exponentially when the power is out all over the county lol. by mobile and even more so when my mobile is attached to the antenna atop my 60ft tower.

 

[SCPD]

Hi Guys,

I posted a similar question about the use of FRS/GMRS radios after an EMP type of disater. I'm not specifically looking to use the radios for emergency purposes, mine is more to stay in contact with my imediate family. My children are all teenagers that are leaving the nest. The first order of business for me is to have them check in so I know they are safe. While I can't count on the GMRS power to reach the 5 miles from where my children are at to my home, as they get closer to home the radios should be able to reach each other. My Motorola radios are the newer type that have an advertised range of 25 and 35 miles. I haven't tested them lately, but the best I could ever get was around 3-4 miles in normal residential with very little hills.

I also want then for scavanger type of missions. I count on localy delivered resources to be completely gone. We will need to head for lakes to collect water for purification/boiling, gather wood for burning and to collect any wild game we might be able to see. My hope is that the radios will be able to play a large role in keeping us connected and safer.

I understand I am planning for what some would call the "worst case senario". Frankly, I would have to agree that I'm going a bit to the extreem on this bleak outlook. I have stock piled AAs for use in all sorts of devices like Steripens, Radios and flashlights. I have rechargables ready to go for the same devices and portable solar pannels for charging. I am also looking at creating a wind charging system too. I'm trying to devise a system to protect them from damaging radiation; hence my other post/thread.

I firmly believe that I need to prepare for disaster events in the following manner: water, shelter, protection, food and communication. Granted, communication is farther down on the list, but I see it as a tool to make sure the rest of the items on my list are more easily aquired.

Rob

If people would read about GMRS instead of buying bubble pack radios and complain about a license they would realize you may run up to 50 watt mobile radios and set up base stations and also use a GMRS repeater but it seems normal for everyone to be radio ignorant and think all that you can buy are those toys at Walmart.I would not believe those exaggerated 25-35 mile etc claims that is figured from one mountain to another in line of site,radio companies do this as a sales tactic and if you read the book it will show you how they get those claims.

 

[jeatock]

A responder's perspective.

I'm a first responder, and the regional Logistics/COML.

Background:
Any incident, no matter how big or small has three communications needs:
1- Initial notification of responders that their services are needed.
2- Wide-Area command and Control.
3- Localized Task Tactical Communications.

For the first and second, FRS is useless. Don't even go there.

The third is where a supply of (inexpensive, charged, exercised) FRS radios can be priceless.

Scenario: A Joplin-type wide area incident.

The need for initial notification is long past- all available responders already know they need to be doing something and report for assignment.

You can assume that wide area command and control infrastructure is either damaged or saturated into chaos. Surviving assets need to be available for upper-level comms between Command and field team leaders. Tactical short-range communications within a field team on a wide area channel only adds to the saturation. The organized C&C need becomes the biggest nightmare for us comm types. Hopefully there are enough surviving systems that the command structure can communicate with its field leaders. Pre-planning, pre-programming and creativity are key.

Cellular systems are probably off the air or so saturated as to be less than useless, although SMS and Internet may still work.

Task tactical: this is where a task leader has to communicate with his own team members typically over a distance a few blocks at most. Using a wide-area channel to ask Bob if he looked under that rock ties up the entire regional system with traffic best handled on a short range system. There may be a few such teams, or dozens. The tactical team leader still needs to have access to a command and control system to communicate up to his Chiefs, but all his Indians don't. 90% of the tactical comm needs reside in a small localized bubble.

There are many national interoperable channels and local proprietary channels that can be assigned to a specific team's tactical needs, but mutual aid responders from far away won't have the proprietary channels. Getting the national channels pre-programmed in any organized fashion is a daunting and politically painful task, and usually part of someone's plan for next year.

FRS radios are cheap, plentiful, and perfect for talking a couple of blocks. Having a crate of FRS radios ready to hand out to supplement field tactical operations is a good thing. I would much rather hand a volunteer teenager assigned to a non-hazardous door-to-door search team a $20 FRS to talk to his team leader instead of an expensive (and possibly scarce) $500 public safety radio. There are 14 FRS channels available, and since their range IS short, channel 2 can be used for one team on the north side, and again or a different team on the south side without interference. The public-safety quality radios (and their frequencies) can then be assigned to the folks performing real life and safety functions.

Don't criticize any local government for using them; encourage them to go buy out the local discount store on a calm sunny day, and have caches of FRS radios kept ready in more than one survivable location.

Another benefit is that if you are trapped in your basement with a FRS radio, there is a better chance that someone on the street will hear you.

 

[nanZor]

Wow! I never thought this thread to my question would go this far - ALL the responses show both sides of the coin.

It may not be much, and I don't look forward to any doomsday or zombie scenario, but I figure it is better to have it and not need it. At least I did *something* in case a short-range link between two or more parties who are not interested in radio per se would be useful at some point.

So I put together a very inexpensive kit:

Three Midland GXT1000 radios - one at home, one in the car, and one at work. Not really used, but just on the ready.
A Duracell 1-hour mobile AA/AAA charger - in the car!
A Goal-Zero "Guide 10" 4-hour folding solar charger - also in the car!
Low-Self-Discharge AA's power everything. Checked and exercised every 3 months.

TESTED everything - burnt out the first Guide-10 and got a replacement. Glad I didn't wait to test it when I actually needed it.

This way, I can usually get to at least two of the radios if nothing more than to use between myself and a family member, friend or coworker. Most likely on day 2 or 3, not during the actual crisis.

Sure, they are toys now. Their toy status changes quickly if nothing else than to have a psychological link with someone else in the same situation. If they can be of more use later, then great.

Thing is, if in the middle of writing this response, if everything goes dark and bad very quickly and I need to get out of Dodge, that stuff will be with me without having to think about it. It's just there, and I can concentrate on other things that might be more immediately important.

Good replies everyone!

 

[Utah_Viper]

When I lived in Utah FRS was a critical part of our neighborhoods emergency plan. The LDS sponsors an amateur radio group that works alongside of ARES/RACES. But it went even deeper then that.

In the LDS Church area are split into "wards" that encompass several neighborhoods. During any emergency (fires, storms, etc.) there was a Ward Net on FRS, the net control would be a ham that in turn was on a regional 2m net. If it was a significant larger event then it could move up to county, and even state level ham nets.

In the lowest level FRS net traffic could be passed about needs, health and welfare, and net control can keep the neighbors apprised of developments.

I think a similar set-up could be implemented in any community and be beneficial.

 

[vdubb16]

When I lived in Utah FRS was a critical part of our neighborhoods emergency plan. The LDS sponsors an amateur radio group that works alongside of ARES/RACES. But it went even deeper then that.

In the LDS Church area are split into "wards" that encompass several neighborhoods. During any emergency (fires, storms, etc.) there was a Ward Net on FRS, the net control would be a ham that in turn was on a regional 2m net. If it was a significant larger event then it could move up to county, and even state level ham nets.

In the lowest level FRS net traffic could be passed about needs, health and welfare, and net control can keep the neighbors apprised of developments.

I think a similar set-up could be implemented in any community and be beneficial.

Sounds more organized than our public service system in our county.