FRS Question

[JethrowJohnson]

Hello,
Me and my neighbors use FRS/GMRS radios made by Cobra for communication while we're at the flea market, and when we got these radios (sometime between 2015 or 16 to 2018 or 19) including the 3 different types we had before then, the instructions said that CH 1-7 were FRS/GMRS, CH 8-14 were FRS, and CH 15-22 were GMRS. CH 1-7 had to be used with the low power setting in order to not require a GMRS license and CH 8-14 were automatically low power and not adjustable. We used to use CH 1 all the time, but now we only use CH 8-14 (mainly just 8) and we thought that was just for the FRS band. But now I heard this morning that all of the channels are GMRS as of 2017 and it is technically illegal to use these radios at all without a GMRS license. Is this true, and are these radios illegal for family use now? What should we use instead of these? Thank you. 🙂

 

[tweiss3]

The wiki does a good job outlining the new rules and the old: FRS/GMRS combined channel chart - The RadioReference Wiki

The long and the short, 8-14 is limited to 0.5 watts, but is shared with GMRS (at that 0.5W for both services). The certification of any combined service radios has been outlawed with the thought that the older radios will all die eventually and not become an issue.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

So, it sounds like the changes made in 2017 just consider ours as FRS only radios, and we're allowed to keep using them until we get new ones which will be set according to the new law? We don't have to get a GMRS license to use them?

 

[nd5y]

The certification of any combined service radios has been outlawed with the thought that the older radios will all die eventually and not become an issue.

That's only part of it. Existing 2 watt (max) radios with non-detachable antennas and narrowband FM were reclassified as FRS radios. Most of those can continue to be manufactured.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

That's only part of it. Existing 2 watt (max) radios with non-detachable antennas and narrowband FM were reclassified as FRS radios. Most of those can continue to be manufactured.

I'm pretty sure that's what ours are.

 

[sallen07]

Hello,
Me and my neighbors use FRS/GMRS radios made by Cobra

But now I heard this morning that all of the channels are GMRS as of 2017 and it is technically illegal to use these radios at all without a GMRS license. Is this true, and are these radios illegal for family use now? What should we use instead of these? Thank you. 🙂

Curious where you heard that. On-line? In person? Either way, whoever told you that was half right, since all of the (pre-2017) FRS and GMRS channels are now shared between the two services. So yes, they are GMRS ... but they are also FRS!

Almost all of the "Bubble Pack" FRS/GMRS radios were reclassified as FRS in 2017, although a few were deemed GMRS (and require a license). If you are really concerned and have the model numbers you could search for them and see what the power levels are, but personally I wouldn't worry about it.

So you are free to use any channel on those radios without a license. Just understand that there may be GMRS repeaters on 15-22 that you will be able to hear but not talk on.

 

[KD8DVR]

So, it sounds like the changes made in 2017 just consider ours as FRS only radios, and we're allowed to keep using them until we get new ones which will be set according to the new law? We don't have to get a GMRS license to use them?

You are correct.

 

[KI5EDJ]

I have some Giant radios made back in 2010 that were affected by the rule change. They were GMRS radios beforehand, FRS radios after... except for the one whose antenna became detachable. Output is 2 watts max, half a watt on 8-14.
I'ma tell ya these things were *cheap*. I used the crap out of them. One of the transmitters quit, the antenna broke off of another and all three of their battery packs wore out. (I rebuilt them and surviving radio can be charged the usual ways.) The third radio, save for its battery, is in mint condition. How it survived this long is beyond me. I could probably mix and match the two broken ones to create one that works according to design.
I knew they'd been reclassified as FRS but didn't learn the extent of the rule change until 8 minutes and 37.1 seconds ago when I looked it up.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

We bought some new Cobra MicroTalk RX385s because mine started to shut off every time I'd transmit even though it should've had a full charge. So I decided that it would probably be better to just go ahead and get new ones for all of us so that we'd have them when the others started to quit, and I really like these ones. They're 1.5W max, with 40 channels and they even have an emergency button in case anyone needs help. They work pretty well, I think we made a good choice when we picked these. 👍

 

[Coffeemug]

I have to admit that I am confused, but it doesn't take a lot to confuse me. I have been a licensed Amateur Radio Operator for over 20 years now. And I am also GMRS licensee for nearly 20 years. The FCC Rules and Regulations seem to change too quick. What maybe current now, will not be the same a 6 months or 24 months from.

 

[nd5y]

The FCC Rules and Regulations seem to change too quick. What maybe current now, will not be the same a 6 months or 24 months from.

The FCC rules aren't secret. Check the FCC's Federal Register page periodically and see if there were any recent changes to radio services that you use.

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[Coffeemug]

I probably sound as if I'm not that smart, but I do once in a while check the FCC website on Rules and Regulations for part 90, 95 and 97. Some things do changes rapidly. Speaking of Person Radio Communication, I was too sure about the 49mhz band, which is assuming still crowded with one way voice for Baby monitors and RC vehicles. Also the Walkie Talkies I remember using as a kid. Those Radios either didn't have the squelch circuit or I never found the squelch control switch. Some 49mhz had preset squelch and also had 1 to 5 channels depending on the radio.
Oh, I do apologize for sounding like an ignorant knuckle head. I do try to sound intelligent, but most of the time, it seems like have 5 grade reading level.
73 de K3JCP & WQAI363

 

[nd5y]

Another thing I check regularly is equipment authorization grants. There are still devices being made and approved for Part 15 on 49 MHz. Mostly toys on 49.86.

Federal Register :: Request Access

Federal Register :: Request Access

 

[mmckenna]

but I do once in a while check the FCC website on Rules and Regulations for part 90, 95 and 97.

Well, that'll tell you what the current rules are.

If you want to stay one step ahead, you need to watch the FCC NPRM page (NPRM = Notice of Proposed rule making). That'll let you see what sort of rule changes they are considering. The FCC will post those so they can get comments from the public.
If you care about your hobby, it's a real good thing to watch.

Often, people don't pay attention to what the FCC is doing, and then only complain after they change the rules. Recently there were some GMRS changes that upset some users, but the FCC had posted the NPRM for quite a bit of time before the change, and they received -zero- responses.

Notice of Proposed Rulemaking

www.fcc.gov

 

[Coffeemug]

If there were a petition to make a few changes to the PRS, especially for FRS / GMRS.
I would hope one of those changes would allowing GMRS repeater owners and trustees to be able to link up repeaters via internet.
I would also be in favor to remove the permanent antenna restriction and allow manufacturers included channels 8 to 14 to mobile radios. Channels 8 to 14 may remain at the 1/2-watt limit, but I'm sure manufacturers can work under the confines of the FCC and produce mobiles that will comply with Part 95 B & 95 E.

Please Don't Tell what I already know. Channels 8 through 14 would interfere with GMRS repeater inputs.

 

[mmckenna]

Keeping FRS short range is part of the design of the service. It was never intended to be a long range thing. That's one of the very reasons the limitations on antennas exist.

If you want external antennas and higher power, that's what GMRS is for. I don't think adding more power to the 467 interstitials would benfit the radio service much.

As for the 8-14 interfering with repeaters, that shouldn't be an issue if everyone is following the rules. 8-14 are narrow band FM and fit betweent he repeater inputs. As long as the repeater owner has a properly aligned receiver, a 1/2 watt radio on an adjacent channel should not be an issue. If it was an issue, it would probably be a good time to force GMRS to narrow band (which will be met with howls of complaints for all those guys running 1970's era GMRS repeaters.)