GMRS Repeater questions

[Cashanova48]

Dear people of the Radio Reference threads,

I had a few questions for what GMRS repeater would be best for me. I live in an area that's relatively flat terrain, and I would like to cover our whole town which is about a mile to a mile and a half in any direction from my location. My needs for the repeater would be as follows: The repeater would have to be fairly cheap (under $1k for everything, including antenna, duplexer, etc). The repeater would need to have a curtesy tone, and automatic identification. I have been locking at the Retivis RT97, but fear that 5 watts wouldn't cut it. I have also been thinking about using two Retivis RA87s, a duplexer, and a phone or pc to control identification, as well as weather reports. Thank you for your time,
Cashanova

 

[AK4PY]

I highly suggest that you round up several local GMRS licensees and you all work on this together. A shoestring budget repeater like you are describing is going to perform like a shoestring budget repeater. On the other hand, if several people pull their resources together then suddenly you can build something decent for a budget friendly price. Honestly, you are best served looking at used commercial repeater equipment verses the entry priced stuff you are looking at. The used equipment does not cost much more in many cases, but is orders of magnitude better.

 

[prcguy]

I highly suggest that you round up several local GMRS licensees and you all work on this together. A shoestring budget repeater like you are describing is going to perform like a shoestring budget repeater. On the other hand, if several people pull their resources together then suddenly you can build something decent for a budget friendly price. Honestly, you are best served looking at used commercial repeater equipment verses the entry priced stuff you are looking at. The used equipment does not cost much more in many cases, but is orders of magnitude better.

I put together a Motorola Quantar with Celwave 526 series duplexer, DB408 antenna and short run of 1/2” Heliax for under $1k. That’s top notch equipment that would be hard to beat anywhere. A $1k budget is very doable. I actually have two Quantar systems running now and the second one with Celwave Stationmaster and Motorola 1500 series duplexer was cheaper.

 

[W8UU]

First choice would be a desktop Motorola GR-1225 repeater. They're available on eBay tuned, programmed, and with duplexer in the $550-$700 range. Second choice would be a reconditioned Kenwood TKR-820. The Kenwood is older and only offers 20 watts RF output but its a solid performer. If you're not comfortable with the technical end, PLEASE have a qualified service technician check the receive, transmit, duplexer, CW ID and courtesy tone programming, wide-band status, etc. before you put the machine on the air. Last tip is buy a really good antenna and feed line and ground everything. If you do it right, you'll have years of dependable service. Good luck!

 

[alcahuete]

1-1.5 miles can be done with a handheld radio in flat terrain, so you shouldn't need anything too crazy. It's the controller, antenna, feedline, and everything else that is going to add up.

 

[Cashanova48]

Thanks for all the replies, I'll be sure to look I to all of them. So 1 to 1.5 mile range might work on five to ten watts?

 

[prcguy]

Thanks for all the replies, I'll be sure to look I to all of them. So 1 to 1.5 mile range might work on five to ten watts?

Antenna and antenna height will mostly determine range. How high can you get the antenna?

 

[TroutBrooker]

I have a repeater in a tree using 2, 5 watt radios and can reach the camp 20 km away.

That was under 100 dollars without the solar charge system.

 

[alcahuete]

Thanks for all the replies, I'll be sure to look I to all of them. So 1 to 1.5 mile range might work on five to ten watts?

Absolutely! I can go out in my backyard with my handheld and talk to another handheld 1-1.5 miles away without any difficulty at all. That's in the open, flat land, etc. Going to be a lot different if there are a bunch of buildings in the way, people using handheld radios from within their houses, etc.

That said, getting a good antenna up as high as you can will help matters immensely. Also don't forget that the duplexer is going to eat up some of that power, depending on the loss, the feedline is going to eat up some of that power, etc. So a 5 watt repeater is never going to be delivering 5 watts to the antenna.

 

[DeeEx]

I have a repeater in a tree using 2, 5 watt radios and can reach the camp 20 km away.

That was under 100 dollars without the solar charge system.

I’m intrigued, not because I need one, but because I’m old and I’m curious what’s on the market that I’m not familiar with. What’s the setup?

 

[TroutBrooker]

I’m intrigued, not because I need one, but because I’m old and I’m curious what’s on the market that I’m not familiar with. What’s the setup?

It's just 2 baeofeng radios with a cheap chinese box between the two. One receives and the other transmits on another channel.
Easy to set-up in the bush when needed.

I have a solar pack to hook up if the old guys are back at the camps

Because of the location FRS radios can be used also.

 

[K6GBW]

With that small of an area I'd just use simplex with a good base antenna. Nothing to break, nothing to pay for and it will always be available.

 

[Gmrsrancher]

With that small of an area I'd just use simplex with a good base antenna. Nothing to break, nothing to pay for and it will always be available.

Totally agree. That’s too smal if an area to bother with a repeater. A hand held will do 60 miles with line of sight. A good anyenna up high and a 20w base station will cover 100plis miles. Less than 5 why bother with a repeater. But if you must eBay has a guy selling 40w Motorola radio repeaters with power supply and duplexer for $400 or so. Add in a 9db 10’ antenna and some coax and your golden out to 100 or more miles depending on line of sight.

 

[prcguy]

Totally agree. That’s too smal if an area to bother with a repeater. A hand held will do 60 miles with line of sight. A good anyenna up high and a 20w base station will cover 100plis miles. Less than 5 why bother with a repeater. But if you must eBay has a guy selling 40w Motorola radio repeaters with power supply and duplexer for $400 or so. Add in a 9db 10’ antenna and some coax and your golden out to 100 or more miles depending on line of sight.

This is ridiculous information and there will rarely be line of sight in the real world. Where I live with some repeaters on 5,000 and 8,000ft mountaintops we can get 100mi range from a handheld. A repeater in the flatlands on a couple story building or a 50ft tower, maybe 5mi reliably and 10-15mi in some sweet spots. No repeater in the flatlands maybe a couple miles max and in some cases well under a mile.

When I go to the Dayton Hamvention flatlands we are lucky to get into some repeaters 20mi away from a 40w mobile and roof mount antenna. And thats not just me, 20,000 other hams at the Dayton Hamvention get the same range, it’s normal for that terrain and low repeater height. So I don’t think it’s fair to the OP to give false hope and not recommend a repeater for the distances he needs. Unless of course his repeater will be on a tall hill or mountain top.

Anyone else out there with handheld range experience want to chime in?

 

[nd5y]

Anyone else out there with handheld range experience want to chime in?

This is on ham radio on 438 MHz.

Mostly residential area. Almost flat. Terrain elevation change probably less than 100 feet within about 3 miles. Not that many trees and most in this area are less than 70 feet. No pine needles.

Base is on 3 dBd antenna (three 1/2 wave sections). Power is set to 2 watts.
Probably around 2 dB coax loss.
Antenna indoors hanging on the wall.
Center of radiation is about 6 ft. above concrete slab. Probably 7 ft. above street level. I don't remember if I calcuated HAAT but it's probably higher than 0.
Exterior wall is brick. Don't know if there is aluminum foil wall board behind the brick.
Don't know how much additional loss from being indoors.

Hand helds with 7 inch dual band antennas (1/4 wave on UHF) running 1 or 2 watts (low power).
Radio in shirt pocket with antenna in the clear or held in the clear. No speaker mic.

Full scale full quiteting signal both ways out to 1/2 to 3/4 mile.
Perfectly useable out to about 2 - 2 1/2 miles.
Farther than that it's hit or miss.

That was with a Yaesu VX-6R and Wouxun KG-UV2D, which was almost as good as the Yaesu.
Baofeng UV-5Rs and UV-82s were only good out to about 1 mile due to the crappy receivers.

 

[prcguy]

This is on ham radio on 438 MHz.

Mostly residential area. Almost flat. Terrain elevation change probably less than 100 feet within about 3 miles. Not that many trees and most in this area are less than 70 feet. No pine needles.

Base is on 3 dBd antenna (three 1/2 wave sections). Power is set to 2 watts.
Probably around 2 dB coax loss.
Antenna indoors hanging on the wall.
Center of radiation is about 6 ft. above concrete slab. Probably 7 ft. above street level. I don't remember if I calcuated HAAT but it's probably higher than 0.
Exterior wall is brick. Don't know if there is aluminum foil wall board behind the brick.
Don't know how much additional loss from being indoors.

Hand helds with 7 inch dual band antennas (1/4 wave on UHF) running 1 or 2 watts (low power).
Radio in shirt pocket with antenna in the clear or held in the clear. No speaker mic.

Full scale full quiteting signal both ways out to 1/2 to 3/4 mile.
Perfectly useable out to about 2 - 2 1/2 miles.
Farther than that it's hit or miss.

That was with a Yaesu VX-6R and Wouxun KG-UV2D, which was almost as good as the Yaesu.
Baofeng UV-5Rs and UV-82s were only good out to about 1 mile due to the crappy receivers.

If you changed from a 3dBd base antenna to a handheld in the same spot you would expect less range, no?

 

[nd5y]

If you changed from a 3dBd base antenna to a handheld in the same spot you would expect less range, no?

Yes but I never tried that. I forgot to mention the base radio is a Yaesu FT-7800R.

Also switching from hand held to another FT-7800 in a truck with a roof mounted 3 foot dual band antenna (equivalent to 2 5/8 wave UHF colinear) and both radios at 10 watts I only got about maybe 2 times the range. Full scale full quieting out to about 1 to 1.5 miles and useable out to maybe 3 to 5 miles depending on the direction. Power is not that important at UHF.

 

[Gmrsrancher]

😂 you are all very funny people with no clue but that’s ok I only use gmrs each and every day for work, play and emergency evacuation. If you’re only getting 5miles or less from a gmrs ht you may as well stick to Walmart FRS radios. There is no point what so ever in having a gmrs radio. I guess the down town city of Los Angeles is a small flat town to you all. Because I can easily get 15miles standing in the middle of down town La with an ht and a good antenna. Maybe your all to short to get good coverage? Or maybe your antennas at junk? I don’t know but I’ve got 200 people in a gmrs club all over so call that get these types of numbers every day. And by the way to the guy that says he gets 100miles in an ht with a repeater that’s not what I’m talking about. That’s not an ht simplex range. I can talk 200miles to the next state from my home simplex with a 20w base radio that is only running 12volts off a battery. Things are possible in life even if you can’t get them to work. Any one that thinks a repeater is needed for 5miles is wasting money and time and has no idea what they are doing. Hence the mention of retivis. Maybe the issue is many of you run woxoun or midland or tidradio or retivis or radioditty radios? I wouldn’t let my dog chew on any of those radios.

 

[ramal121]

New record. Shortest number of posts before I ignore a troll.

 

[prcguy]

I’ve been running GMRS from around 1978 starting with a Motorola HT-220 and installed my first GMRS repeater around 1983. You’re lucky you live in a place where you don’t need repeaters but the rest of us can’t get reliable coverage over a mile or two without one. Come to my neighborhood and bring your radios, you won’t get far on simplex. And there is a good chance someone will steal your radios so it won’t matter at some point.