wolverine
Member
Well I'm not to happy, i was hoping for a new digital scanner who's technology would be nothing like whats been on the market before. Instead, this is what they come up with, wow.
GRE CES New Product Announcements
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ltjweiss
Member
anyone know when these scanners go up for sale? were they selling them at the show? can the even sell products at the show?
jpryor
Member
GRE @ CES 2010 - Part 1 of 3
Below is a summary of my discussion with Wayne Wilson and Raj Gounder of GRE America from CES 2010. GRE announced their new PSR-700 EZ Scan-SD (iScan equivalent model) as well as a new GRE branded PSR-110 Race Scanner at the show. I'll cover some more details regarding the specifics for these two new models, then get into some general discussion items as well as cover additional questions folks wanted to know.
PSR-700 EZ Scan-SD
As for differences compared to the Radio Shack iScan branded model, this unit will not only be black in color, but also has a hard rubberized casing in place of a traditional solid plastic casing. The keypad has been redesigned and optimized for one handed operation (which was not a consideration with the original Radio Shack iScan version). The largest functional difference is the inclusion of V-Scanners which will allow one to save up to 200 different scanner configurations (scan list combinations and settings) for easy recall. Also are the various GRE versus Radio Shack specific branding elements as Don had mentioned ("Spectrum Sweeper" versus "Signal Stalker").
The reason why GRE has released analog-only models first (RS PRO-107 and GRE PSR-700) is due to the fact that the analog trunking market currently outsells digital trunking on an order of 5 to 2. As Don had mentioned, a majority of activity and frequencies are still analog in the global scanner market, and hence a majority of people are still just looking for analog models. See the General Discussion section for some additional comments on my part in regards to the analog/digital trend. GRE did indicate that a digital version is "a year away", is in development, and is the highest priority for delivery. These initial analog iScan/EZ-Scan models will be a good proving ground for this latest form factor.
The photo of the PSR-700 that I captured was not of a working unit, but a production prototype of how the scanner and casing will be produced. They did have a GRECOM branded piece of iScan looking hardware that was running the new PSR-700 EZ Scan firmware. It is interesting to see that everything for these scanners runs off the SD card, including all of the scanner firmware/software as well as holding all of the programming information. This should provide for a good future with the ability to essentially update most functionality via firmware/software upgrades. It will be great to see this SD card functionality on other future GRE models--especially the higher tier and full function type models like the PSR-500/600 form factors.
While this line of models using the new iScan/EZ-Scan form factor is focused heavily on being preprogrammed and easy to use, this new form factor, and these new models are also just the latest step. It will be great to see some of the technologies introduced with these specific models eventually move across the entire scanner line.
GRE indicated to look to June 2010 for first availability of the PSR-700 model and that the unit will have a price point similar to that of the Radio Shack PRO-107.
[Part 1 of 3]
PSR-700 Photos Below.
Below is a summary of my discussion with Wayne Wilson and Raj Gounder of GRE America from CES 2010. GRE announced their new PSR-700 EZ Scan-SD (iScan equivalent model) as well as a new GRE branded PSR-110 Race Scanner at the show. I'll cover some more details regarding the specifics for these two new models, then get into some general discussion items as well as cover additional questions folks wanted to know.
PSR-700 EZ Scan-SD
As for differences compared to the Radio Shack iScan branded model, this unit will not only be black in color, but also has a hard rubberized casing in place of a traditional solid plastic casing. The keypad has been redesigned and optimized for one handed operation (which was not a consideration with the original Radio Shack iScan version). The largest functional difference is the inclusion of V-Scanners which will allow one to save up to 200 different scanner configurations (scan list combinations and settings) for easy recall. Also are the various GRE versus Radio Shack specific branding elements as Don had mentioned ("Spectrum Sweeper" versus "Signal Stalker").
The reason why GRE has released analog-only models first (RS PRO-107 and GRE PSR-700) is due to the fact that the analog trunking market currently outsells digital trunking on an order of 5 to 2. As Don had mentioned, a majority of activity and frequencies are still analog in the global scanner market, and hence a majority of people are still just looking for analog models. See the General Discussion section for some additional comments on my part in regards to the analog/digital trend. GRE did indicate that a digital version is "a year away", is in development, and is the highest priority for delivery. These initial analog iScan/EZ-Scan models will be a good proving ground for this latest form factor.
The photo of the PSR-700 that I captured was not of a working unit, but a production prototype of how the scanner and casing will be produced. They did have a GRECOM branded piece of iScan looking hardware that was running the new PSR-700 EZ Scan firmware. It is interesting to see that everything for these scanners runs off the SD card, including all of the scanner firmware/software as well as holding all of the programming information. This should provide for a good future with the ability to essentially update most functionality via firmware/software upgrades. It will be great to see this SD card functionality on other future GRE models--especially the higher tier and full function type models like the PSR-500/600 form factors.
While this line of models using the new iScan/EZ-Scan form factor is focused heavily on being preprogrammed and easy to use, this new form factor, and these new models are also just the latest step. It will be great to see some of the technologies introduced with these specific models eventually move across the entire scanner line.
GRE indicated to look to June 2010 for first availability of the PSR-700 model and that the unit will have a price point similar to that of the Radio Shack PRO-107.
[Part 1 of 3]
PSR-700 Photos Below.
Attachments
jpryor
Member
GRE @ CES 2010 - Part 2 of 3
PSR-110 Race Scanner
The working model was red in color as you can see by the attached photo. In regards to the dual display, the "2-Digit Sub-Display" is a top mounted LCD display for showing the car number. That allows the car number information to be visible from the top of the unit while attached to your belt. On the left side are two racing headphone connections (A and B). This allows two individuals to listen together (and talk to each other via the intercom feature when using racing headsets with microphones). In addition the right side has a phone/pc-if connection as well as the power connection. When a cell phone is connected, the answer (phone button) can be pushed and you can use your cell phone by talking through the racing headset (via the A connection only). As mentioned before this unit is UHF only, it also does not have an external speaker, and is focused on being a dedicated race fan scanner. The unit has V-Scanner like ability to easily recall the programming for each of the "Big Race Categories" (Champ Car, ARCA RE/MAX, Indy Racing, Craftsman Truck, Busch Series, and Nextel Cup). These groups are all preprogrammed and adjustable. The unit offers flexibility for scanning by CAR number, a FAV button for favorite cars, and direct access for the MRN frequency. The scanner is powered by three AA batteries.
The race scanner market may be bigger here than some folks think. About 1 in 10 attendees at these big race makets may have a scanner, at a large NASCAR race with 250,000 folks there, that could mean around 25,000 people with scanners in the crowd. Folks are looking for preprogrammed units and easy to use models with alpha tags and car number information for an easy and flexible scanning experience. GRE also indicated that they will have an agreement with a track side scanner rental company for updating programming for these models at the race. Again look for this model's availability in June 2010 if not sooner.
[Part 2 of 3]
PSR-110 Photos Below.
PSR-110 Race Scanner
The working model was red in color as you can see by the attached photo. In regards to the dual display, the "2-Digit Sub-Display" is a top mounted LCD display for showing the car number. That allows the car number information to be visible from the top of the unit while attached to your belt. On the left side are two racing headphone connections (A and B). This allows two individuals to listen together (and talk to each other via the intercom feature when using racing headsets with microphones). In addition the right side has a phone/pc-if connection as well as the power connection. When a cell phone is connected, the answer (phone button) can be pushed and you can use your cell phone by talking through the racing headset (via the A connection only). As mentioned before this unit is UHF only, it also does not have an external speaker, and is focused on being a dedicated race fan scanner. The unit has V-Scanner like ability to easily recall the programming for each of the "Big Race Categories" (Champ Car, ARCA RE/MAX, Indy Racing, Craftsman Truck, Busch Series, and Nextel Cup). These groups are all preprogrammed and adjustable. The unit offers flexibility for scanning by CAR number, a FAV button for favorite cars, and direct access for the MRN frequency. The scanner is powered by three AA batteries.
The race scanner market may be bigger here than some folks think. About 1 in 10 attendees at these big race makets may have a scanner, at a large NASCAR race with 250,000 folks there, that could mean around 25,000 people with scanners in the crowd. Folks are looking for preprogrammed units and easy to use models with alpha tags and car number information for an easy and flexible scanning experience. GRE also indicated that they will have an agreement with a track side scanner rental company for updating programming for these models at the race. Again look for this model's availability in June 2010 if not sooner.
[Part 2 of 3]
PSR-110 Photos Below.
Attachments
jpryor
Member
GRE @ CES 2010 - Part 3 of 3
General Discussion
The Radio Reference community in general should not be discouraged here by these latest models. GRE indicates they indeed respond and listen to the RR community and users, but they also need to design for the global scanner market. Some of us here are from a much more advanced user base than the general scanner market, and the overall scanner market is not all that large to begin with. GRE will continue to market and develop and sell to the entire base (which is a very small percentage of general consumers). But with growth in the overall scanner industry, we can all see benefits from an increased user base.
We talked in general about the challenges of a niche market. I'll sum my thoughts up with a few points here in relation to CES and consumer electronics. These two new scanner model announcements were just two new models out of the 20,000 some new models reported as being announced across the entire Consumer Electronics Show this past week. Consider the market for TVs or mobile phones where there are billions of consumers and units in the market, with hundreds of manufacturers and thousands of new models. If we all can help expand the base, more options will be available across the entire scanner market. Some of what we all are doing here on RR with the Live Audio feeds we provide and information and discussion forums we offer can help expand that market. These preprogrammed and 'easy to use' product offerings from GRE will be beneficial to folks here and will also help attract new consumers and expand the scanner market.
Here are some of my general comments regarding the analog versus digital trend. Once digital activity is more prevalent, and digital starts to outsell analog, I would suspect we'll then see more models with digital, and at some point all models may have digital. We may even get to the point of televisions and mobile phones, when eventually some models in the future will only need to support digital. GRE had asked if I had purchased an iScan yet, and I advised I have not, since in my particular case, all of my county is digital. Once a majority of the activity and demand moves to digital, the manufacturers and market will need to respond to that trend.
We also talked a little about their business distribution model. GRE not only sells directly now and through dealers, along with their OEM/ODM relationships for distribution via Radio Shack and now also MFJ. GRE also indicated that Radio Shack now only purchases from GRE, and that is primarily because of the 'easy to use' factor of the Radio Shack/GRE line. In fact more and more people now refer to the combined "RS/GRE" brand. From what I can see, a larger purchaser like Radio Shack that may be buying thousands of units at a time indeed earns their right to preferential model release time lines and other brand distinctions.
GRE mentioned that in 2005 the Radio Shack brand accounted for about 60% of the scanner market share. This was primarily from their ability to introduce and demonstrate scanners at their thousands of store locations. Today the RS/GRE brand is growing online as well, and while it may not have as large of magazine presence, the physical distribution at RS stores is still key. Target customers and markets include not only general hobbyists and racing enthusiasts but also a growing commercial/public safety market. And despite the general economic conditions of the past year, GRE stated they have performed significantly well last year and are looking very good for 2010.
We talked further on marketing methods and scanner design as related to a direct interaction with the hobbyist community. I eluded to the role that UPMan and Uniden has established here on Radio Reference. GRE said they focus on responding to the community by offering the right products and that they don't want to be in a position to argue back and forth on an open forum. In regards to scanner design and manufacturing, GRE talked about how the Radio Shack PRO-95 was one of the first models designed based on feedback from the online community (then primarily Strong Signals).
Today GRE continues to conduct regular reviews and prioritizing of projects as well as responding to marketplace changes. They do not create new models just for the sake of new models, so we won't see new offerings in all categories every year. In fact they reminded me that the Radio Shack PRO-96 was the lead digital trunking model for six years, and that unit continued to generate new sales until the latest digital releases. GRE if anything said they have too many projects, and too many things they'd like to do. It is all a balance of technology/advancement, satisfying the customer, and responding to sales that drives new models in the industry.
Ok, some final random items. In regards to beta testing, that is a pretty small and intimate group. But I would have to say that good customers that provide good feedback and have a good relationship with GRE would have the best opportunity to help participate. GRE also had a a formal Press Release announcement in the works regarding the CES announcements, so stay tuned for that information. Also this has only been the 2nd year at CES for GRE, and they indeed plan on being back at the show in year three. And for general information, the CES is a consumer electronics trade show primarily for announcing and demonstrating new models, and not a ham-fest/computer-fest type show where one can purchase items.
Any other thoughts, comments, questions, please feel free to post. I may have more answers in my notes or in my head if I was not able to answer any other particular questions that I did not cover.
Jeff KC8NNO
[Part 3 of 3]
GRE CES Booth Photo Below.
General Discussion
The Radio Reference community in general should not be discouraged here by these latest models. GRE indicates they indeed respond and listen to the RR community and users, but they also need to design for the global scanner market. Some of us here are from a much more advanced user base than the general scanner market, and the overall scanner market is not all that large to begin with. GRE will continue to market and develop and sell to the entire base (which is a very small percentage of general consumers). But with growth in the overall scanner industry, we can all see benefits from an increased user base.
We talked in general about the challenges of a niche market. I'll sum my thoughts up with a few points here in relation to CES and consumer electronics. These two new scanner model announcements were just two new models out of the 20,000 some new models reported as being announced across the entire Consumer Electronics Show this past week. Consider the market for TVs or mobile phones where there are billions of consumers and units in the market, with hundreds of manufacturers and thousands of new models. If we all can help expand the base, more options will be available across the entire scanner market. Some of what we all are doing here on RR with the Live Audio feeds we provide and information and discussion forums we offer can help expand that market. These preprogrammed and 'easy to use' product offerings from GRE will be beneficial to folks here and will also help attract new consumers and expand the scanner market.
Here are some of my general comments regarding the analog versus digital trend. Once digital activity is more prevalent, and digital starts to outsell analog, I would suspect we'll then see more models with digital, and at some point all models may have digital. We may even get to the point of televisions and mobile phones, when eventually some models in the future will only need to support digital. GRE had asked if I had purchased an iScan yet, and I advised I have not, since in my particular case, all of my county is digital. Once a majority of the activity and demand moves to digital, the manufacturers and market will need to respond to that trend.
We also talked a little about their business distribution model. GRE not only sells directly now and through dealers, along with their OEM/ODM relationships for distribution via Radio Shack and now also MFJ. GRE also indicated that Radio Shack now only purchases from GRE, and that is primarily because of the 'easy to use' factor of the Radio Shack/GRE line. In fact more and more people now refer to the combined "RS/GRE" brand. From what I can see, a larger purchaser like Radio Shack that may be buying thousands of units at a time indeed earns their right to preferential model release time lines and other brand distinctions.
GRE mentioned that in 2005 the Radio Shack brand accounted for about 60% of the scanner market share. This was primarily from their ability to introduce and demonstrate scanners at their thousands of store locations. Today the RS/GRE brand is growing online as well, and while it may not have as large of magazine presence, the physical distribution at RS stores is still key. Target customers and markets include not only general hobbyists and racing enthusiasts but also a growing commercial/public safety market. And despite the general economic conditions of the past year, GRE stated they have performed significantly well last year and are looking very good for 2010.
We talked further on marketing methods and scanner design as related to a direct interaction with the hobbyist community. I eluded to the role that UPMan and Uniden has established here on Radio Reference. GRE said they focus on responding to the community by offering the right products and that they don't want to be in a position to argue back and forth on an open forum. In regards to scanner design and manufacturing, GRE talked about how the Radio Shack PRO-95 was one of the first models designed based on feedback from the online community (then primarily Strong Signals).
Today GRE continues to conduct regular reviews and prioritizing of projects as well as responding to marketplace changes. They do not create new models just for the sake of new models, so we won't see new offerings in all categories every year. In fact they reminded me that the Radio Shack PRO-96 was the lead digital trunking model for six years, and that unit continued to generate new sales until the latest digital releases. GRE if anything said they have too many projects, and too many things they'd like to do. It is all a balance of technology/advancement, satisfying the customer, and responding to sales that drives new models in the industry.
Ok, some final random items. In regards to beta testing, that is a pretty small and intimate group. But I would have to say that good customers that provide good feedback and have a good relationship with GRE would have the best opportunity to help participate. GRE also had a a formal Press Release announcement in the works regarding the CES announcements, so stay tuned for that information. Also this has only been the 2nd year at CES for GRE, and they indeed plan on being back at the show in year three. And for general information, the CES is a consumer electronics trade show primarily for announcing and demonstrating new models, and not a ham-fest/computer-fest type show where one can purchase items.
Any other thoughts, comments, questions, please feel free to post. I may have more answers in my notes or in my head if I was not able to answer any other particular questions that I did not cover.
Jeff KC8NNO
[Part 3 of 3]
GRE CES Booth Photo Below.
Attachments
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hoser147
Member
Thanks for taking the time for the reviews and info Jeff!!
wolverine
Member
When the digital PSR 700 comes out, will i be able to use the included software to program talkgroups the same as they are in my PSR 500?.
A digital version is a year away, but I'm sure that's a consideration. It sounds like GRE plans to continue to use many of the same feature set such as the V-Scanner and Spectrum Sweeper.
I don't doubt the statistics, but I just have to wonder to myself why the RadioShack stores that I visited to see the Pro-107 are not carrying them, and that a comment was that they would not carry them, but would have it shipped to the store or home. That doesn't leave much advantage to shopping at the local store.
I also suspect the areas I visit also lean toward the high end digital market due to the statewide trunking systems that use P25.
I'm not sure that's a totally true statement. I suspect the database runs from the SD card, but the firmware and software are a different function. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the SD card is for the database only. The PC/IF cable is used to update the firmware directly in the radio is it not?
Hopefully the current GRE dealers, such as Grove Enterprises, Scanner World, HamStation, and Scanner Master will have more competitive prices than RadioShack, that they are with the GRE PSR equivalent radios.
Jeff, was there mention of any additional accessories beyond the PC/IF cable for the PSR700?
CStarr59
Member
Jeff, Thanks for that update. It was awesome and much appreciated and explains a lot about GRE's commitment and understanding of it's customer base and the scanner market in general. The Psr-700 is basically the 2nd step in a whole new scanner technology direction, im sure many more products will develope from this.
Tom_G
Member
Remote Head Mobile Radio
Jeff,
Thanks for the writeup and the pictures...
I'm still hoping for a "Real" remote head on a mobile radio.
Much like Yaesu, Icom, and Kenwood do with their Amateur products where the actual faceplate of the radio is removable for remote operation.
Uniden attempted this, but their solution was a poor design with both the remote head and and radio requiring power,and also the lack of being able to turn the radio on/off via the remote head.
I think there would be a decent market for this as many vehicle have little room for mounting full radios.
I hope GRE is thinking about this.... Thanks,
Jeff,
Thanks for the writeup and the pictures...
I'm still hoping for a "Real" remote head on a mobile radio.
Much like Yaesu, Icom, and Kenwood do with their Amateur products where the actual faceplate of the radio is removable for remote operation.
Uniden attempted this, but their solution was a poor design with both the remote head and and radio requiring power,and also the lack of being able to turn the radio on/off via the remote head.
I think there would be a decent market for this as many vehicle have little room for mounting full radios.
I hope GRE is thinking about this.... Thanks,
AZScanner
Member
Jeff, excellent write-up and pics. My buddy over in Vegas never did get back to me. Probably spent too much time in the casinos getting blitzed instead, LOL. But I'm very encouraged by what I see, especially the rubberized case on the 700SD - my biggest beef with GRE's radios was that they are so darn fragile, so I'm glad to see that folks at GRE are addressing that issue. I lol'd at the "argue back and forth in a forum" comment - awesome.
A year away huh? Well count me in, GRE - I'll be picking up the digital model.
-AZ
A year away huh? Well count me in, GRE - I'll be picking up the digital model.
-AZ
HancockCountyHal
Member
Jeff,
Another thanks for your excellent efforts. A clear, concise, plain talk assessement of the GRE product offerings at the show.
May I suggest to GRE that they hire you as their Cheif Communications Oficer. It's very appaent that they need someone that can deal with facts and not just "revolutionary" hype.
Good Job!
HCH
Another thanks for your excellent efforts. A clear, concise, plain talk assessement of the GRE product offerings at the show.
May I suggest to GRE that they hire you as their Cheif Communications Oficer. It's very appaent that they need someone that can deal with facts and not just "revolutionary" hype.
Good Job!
HCH
ltjweiss
Member
awesome report! thank you very much for the feed back!
jpryor
Member
I asked about this a little further, and it was my interpretation that both the firmware/software as well as programming information was all contained on the card. It was mentioned that if you took the card out the scanner would not be able to do anything since all of the functionality is on the card. Based on what I know about the PRO-107, the SD card is updated when connected to the computer using the included iScan software. We may need to see if somebody knows a little further regarding the specifics in this case, it may just be the programming information on the card.
DaveIN said:
I did not get any other information regarding included accessories.
Customer service aside, I echo the comments of those who really don't like this scanner and I add the following:
When monitoring a large area system while on the road sometimes certain tower site will change control channel frequencies causing you to have to search for and enter a new frequency to fill in what would otherwise be a coverage gap. Without a number keypad how do you enter a frequency while driving? I have had to do this many times as our new statewide 700 MHz system is still growing.
Without a number keypad how do you quickly manually select a channel in a large trunked system? Oh sure you can use the select and arrow keys to manually step thorough channels but in a system that will eventually have several thousand talkgroups this is not an option.
and the next comment is a bit more of a person opinion but,
It's ugly adn cheap as hell and the radio shack version looks like it was designed by some liberal democrat tree hugging whale saving mac-toting apple head.
I gotta say no thanks on this one.
When monitoring a large area system while on the road sometimes certain tower site will change control channel frequencies causing you to have to search for and enter a new frequency to fill in what would otherwise be a coverage gap. Without a number keypad how do you enter a frequency while driving? I have had to do this many times as our new statewide 700 MHz system is still growing.
Without a number keypad how do you quickly manually select a channel in a large trunked system? Oh sure you can use the select and arrow keys to manually step thorough channels but in a system that will eventually have several thousand talkgroups this is not an option.
and the next comment is a bit more of a person opinion but,
It's ugly adn cheap as hell and the radio shack version looks like it was designed by some liberal democrat tree hugging whale saving mac-toting apple head.
I gotta say no thanks on this one.
- Status
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