Greene and Boone County ISICS Question

[K0MSM]

Greetings all -

I live in Greene County, in Dana. It's not too far from the Boone County / Greene County line. At home, I usually get all of my ISICS traffic on my SDS200 from the Boone County system, using the Woodward/Ames simulcast site(s). Even when running just the Greene County system (using the Seven Hills site) with Boone completely turned off, I hear no ISP traffic, and very little, if any, Greene County public safety traffic. That used to lead me to believe that the Seven Hills site wasn't running. For note, my SDS200 is connected to a discone at approximately 15' AGL. It works well enough to pick up Carroll, Webster, and Boone County conventional traffic.

However -

When I get in the car with my SDS100, and especially on the west side of the county, (not so much on the east side of the county) I get traffic on the Seven Hills site just fine.

Now, I wouldn't mind getting all of my ISP traffic from the Boone system, but I don't think Boone carries the Greene County public safety traffic on their system.

So I guess my question is this - is there some reason that my SDS200 is targeting Woodward/Ames so hard and ignoring Seven Hills? I should also add that the programming for the SDS100 and SDS200 are identical, at least as the FF-SS-DD setups are concerned. If I make a change to one, I make that same change to the other. I make the file in ProScan, then FTP the file to the 200, and us mass storage write to put it on the 100.

Sean

 

[VASCAR2]

I don’t live in Iowa but I have a couple ideas that might prove helpful. The site for ISICS is new enough I can’t determine the specific location. There appears to be a new tower being constructed near the entrance to Seven Hills state park. The GPS coordinates listed in RR data base for the site is closest to a tower just west of Jefferson on 230th (Wall Street) near the intersection of M Ave. I can’t see the towers via google earth street view to get the height or type of antennas.


There is a web site for determining line of site between two locations. It is entirely possible your residence is blocked from the tower by terrain and the curvature of the Earth. Here is a link to the line of site web site.

RF Line of Sight - SCADACore

RF Line-of-Sight provides radio path information for mapping long distance SCADA radio communications by using antenna height and topography.

www.scadacore.com

When looking at the ISICS site map the Greene County site is maintained by Greene County. There are only two Frequencies listed for the Greene County 2-37 site. I suspect the Greene County site only affiliates with very few Talk Groups that are not in Greene County. There are ISICS maintained sites in Carroll, Webster and Guthrie Counties where ISP probably affiliates on the West and South sides of Greene County. The Boone and Dallas simulcast sites probably cover the east and southern part of Greene County. It is possible the only time a non Greene County unit like Iowa State Patrol is carried on the Greene County site is if it is within range and is voting Greene County site 2-37. It is also possible only units that have access to Greene County TG‘s can affiliate with site 2-37 and if they are talking to the Greene County Sheriff or local police TG.

As Rural as Greene County is there might not be much radio traffic. Usually you can hear traffic near shift change times or when there activities like County Fairs, Sporting Events or severe weather. I haven’t looked at the ISICS page on RR for Greene County but I suspect there are only a few talk groups. The TG could be encrypted and might not be indicated in the data base if no one has submitted the information. A lot of traffic these days is transmitted via cell phone and computer systems (mobile Data Terminals) mounted in vehicles.

 

[VASCAR2]

I just checked the RR DB for ISICS Greene County. It looks like the LE Talk group 30405 is patched to the Sheriff’s dispatch frequency 153.800. It is entirely possible the patch is not continually activated. You could try to add the two school districts TG’s to your favorites list and ensure the type code for schools is turned on. You might get enough transmissions to verify you can receive the Greene County Site 2-37 from your residence.

Greene County
​

DEC	HEX	Mode	Alpha Tag	Description	Tag
30405	76c5	T	37 LAW 1	Law 1 - 153.800	Law Dispatch
30419	76d3	T	37 ROAM	Statewide Roam	Multi-Dispatch
30424	76d8	T	PCCSD BUSES	Paton-Churdan Community School District	Schools
30412	76cc	T	SCHOOL	School	Schools

 

[K0MSM]

Thank for the helpful information! I highly appreciate it! I did some more sleuthing last night, and here's what I've discovered so far...

I fired up my SDS100 and locked it on my Greene County favorite. I did the same on my SDS200. Keeping in mind:

1. The SDS200 is on a discone, and easily picks up neighboring counties
2. The SDS100 is using the stock antenna
3. Both have the exact same favorites lists programmed

I picked up traffic on the Seven Hills site several times on the SDS100, both from Greene County Sheriff and ISP. Not once did the SDS200 register anything at all. Even had the recorder running in ProScan, in case I missed something. Nothing at all on ISICS.

For grins & giggles I toggled all of the service types from ON to OFF and back to ON. Just to see if that was an issue somehow/someway. I also cycled the favorite from ON to OFF, and each System and Department as well.

I kept the SDS200 scanning that favorite all night. Getting up this morning, the SDS200 picked up the normal amount of overnight traffic on the VHF frequency for Greene County, but nothing at all on ISICS.

I'm truly baffled by this. I feel like if it was a scanner problem, I'd see the same behavior on another system. But I don't. Boone County, for example, chit-chats all day long with no problems at all on the SDS200. It also can't be an interference problem from the next closest system (again, Boone County), because the sites they use are on frequencies nowhere near the Seven Hills Site. And if it was an interference problem, you'd think the SDS100 wouldn't work when in the car on the external antenna (which works fine).

Unless any of you more wizened scanner folks have any other suggestions, I'm left with two things:

1 - Delete that favorite and rebuild it. Maybe some bit or byte is corrupted somehow and it's just not showing itself. Or,
2 - Bite the bullet and factory reset the scanner, start from scratch.

Perplexing.

Sean

 

[K0MSM]

One more thing I'm going to try is a Discovery Scan. I'm going to see if that shows anything.

Sean

 

[K0MSM]

OMG... I think I found the problem, and I'm stunned. Maybe it's something some of you have seen, maybe not, but here's what I've found so far. Bear with me...

I have my discone outside, and it's my sole scanning antenna. But - I have multiple items that need the services of that antenna; three scanners, a weather radio, and a used-every-so-often SDR dongle. So, I run the signal from the discone through an 8-way splitter, rated for 5-2300 MHz.

So far, so good. Nothing has had any issues, and everything was dumb, fat, and happy.

Until now.

When I put the SDS200 into discovery mode, it saw nothing. It didn't see the Seven Hills site. At all. So, I connected the SDS100 up to one of the ports on the splitter. Guess what? It saw nothing at all either. No signal, no data, no nothing. Hmmmm.....

I flipped over to the Ames/Woodward simulcast site, and there was plenty of traffic, just as usual. More hmmmm.....

So, I connected the SDS200 directly to the discone. Bingo. Traffic, just as expected. Plenty of traffic on the Seven Hills site.

So apparently, the splitter is somehow attenuating the signals coming from the Seven Hills site. It uses two frequencies in the 771 and 772 range. Meanwhile, the Ames/Woodward site(s) use 773 and 774 frequencies, which seem to work fine.

I'm not sure that I would have ever expected the splitter to be the problem, TBH. Working on one system, and totally deaf on another. But at least I know the cause.

Sean

 

[Guldnerk]

OMG... I think I found the problem, and I'm stunned. Maybe it's something some of you have seen, maybe not, but here's what I've found so far. Bear with me...

I have my discone outside, and it's my sole scanning antenna. But - I have multiple items that need the services of that antenna; three scanners, a weather radio, and a used-every-so-often SDR dongle. So, I run the signal from the discone through an 8-way splitter, rated for 5-2300 MHz.

So far, so good. Nothing has had any issues, and everything was dumb, fat, and happy.

Until now.

When I put the SDS200 into discovery mode, it saw nothing. It didn't see the Seven Hills site. At all. So, I connected the SDS100 up to one of the ports on the splitter. Guess what? It saw nothing at all either. No signal, no data, no nothing. Hmmmm.....

I flipped over to the Ames/Woodward simulcast site, and there was plenty of traffic, just as usual. More hmmmm.....

So, I connected the SDS200 directly to the discone. Bingo. Traffic, just as expected. Plenty of traffic on the Seven Hills site.

So apparently, the splitter is somehow attenuating the signals coming from the Seven Hills site. It uses two frequencies in the 771 and 772 range. Meanwhile, the Ames/Woodward site(s) use 773 and 774 frequencies, which seem to work fine.

I'm not sure that I would have ever expected the splitter to be the problem, TBH. Working on one system, and totally deaf on another. But at least I know the cause.

Sean

Those things can be frustrating. Glad you found the issue.

 

[K0MSM]

Well, I certainly might have spoken too soon. After rearranging connections so the SDS200 gets first priority on the discone, then everything else goes to the splitter... now, the SDS200 picks up nothing on any trunked system. Even on Boone County, which used to work fine. It's totally deaf. The SDS100 works fine still! But the 200 is deaf as a rock. Trunked discovery doesn't even pick up anything, where it once did.

I've cleared all user settings and restored the scanner back to default, then reloaded the favorites. No dice. Still totally deaf. I unplugged the power for 60 seconds. No change.

I'm starting to wonder now if I have a faulty scanner of some sort, which would really suck, because I really don't want to consider having to purchase a new 200. They've gone up considerably in price since I got this one, and my wife might not appreciate it.

Sean

 

[VASCAR2]

Well it sounds like you’re really into the hobby K0MSM which brings with it unique learning experiences. When you mentioned you had a SDS100 and it received the Seven Hills site I immediately suspected and antenna or cable issue. The higher frequencies loose signal strength more quickly for example with RG 58 coax compared to VHF or 400 MGhz frequencies.

I figure you’re using low loss quality coax like LMR400 but do you know what cable your using from your Discone antenna? You might try connecting your discone antenna directly to your SDS200. Years ago I had a Antenna Specialist VHF Hi/Low UHF scanner antenna at about 40’ on my tower connected with RG58. When I tried using that antenna for receiving 800 MGHz traffic I got worse reception than just using the supplied pull up antenna with my Uniden scanner.


I suggest you connect the SDS200 to a pull up antenna supplied with the scanner and compare reception to the SDS100. If the SDS200 doesn’t receive near as well as the SDS100 then you have an interference issue, like noise on the 110 out or power supply or possibly an issue with the SDS200 sensitivity. I really think it is a noise problem in the SDS200 specific location in your house or an outdoor antenna coax issue working with the SDS200.

 

[K0MSM]

Well it sounds like you’re really into the hobby K0MSM which brings with it unique learning experiences. When you mentioned you had a SDS100 and it received the Seven Hills site I immediately suspected and antenna or cable issue. The higher frequencies loose signal strength more quickly for example with RG 58 coax compared to VHF or 400 MGhz frequencies.

I figure you’re using low loss quality coax like LMR400 but do you know what cable your using from your Discone antenna? You might try connecting your discone antenna directly to your SDS200. Years ago I had a Antenna Specialist VHF Hi/Low UHF scanner antenna at about 40’ on my tower connected with RG58. When I tried using that antenna for receiving 800 MGHz traffic I got worse reception than just using the supplied pull up antenna with my Uniden scanner.


I suggest you connect the SDS200 to a pull up antenna supplied with the scanner and compare reception to the SDS100. If the SDS200 doesn’t receive near as well as the SDS100 then you have an interference issue, like noise on the 110 out or power supply or possibly an issue with the SDS200 sensitivity. I really think it is a noise problem in the SDS200 specific location in your house or an outdoor antenna coax issue working with the SDS200.

I'm running RG-8 from the discone to the scanner. And, the 100 is picking up fine on that connection. It's the 200 that now wants to ignore everything on ISICS (although VHF seems to work fine).

I'll see if I have an old "pull up" with a BNC connector lying around that I can hook up to the 200. What makes me suspicious is that the 100 functions fine on the same connection.

Oh, I've been bitten for a while. My first scanner was a Regency back in the late 70s, early 80s? It had a blue & white front, 10 channels, each one represented by a red light, and of course all crystal controlled. I was ecstatic when my dad gave it to me. Found a picture of it on the web!

Sean

 

[VASCAR2]

I remember those old Regency scanners. I got interested in listening to Police while in the eight grade. A friend’s Dad was a Deputy Sheriff and had a scanner. I bought an AM/FM radio with public safety band and tuned it into the local police frequency. They were simplex at the time on 155.760. I saved my money and Bought a Bearcat III. I talked my Dad into putting an antenna on the roof and added a second Bearcat III. We could listen to a few counties with those two scanners.


I’ve seen where a scanner can go deaf on a single frequency range but I’d be surprised that is the issue with your SDS200. I complained at work that the tower in my area seemed to be off line or lacking a receiver. The radio technician found the utility had a bad insulator on the power pole close to the remote transmitter site my Agency used. The transmitter and receiver were fine but the power cables were putting out enough noise to kill the reception on our 42.46 or 42.50 receivers.

I suggest you try your SDS200 on a different power circuit and in different locations to see if reception improves. If it is still deaf on 700/800 MGHz you may have a component go bad in the SDS200. Let us know if you figure it out.

 

[K0MSM]

I've opened a case with Uniden support. My SDS100 is on the antenna now, and cooking right along. I'll have to find an adapter to keep it charged while it's sitting there, and I can't collect recordings from it with ProScan like I do from the 200, but at least it's something.

Sean

 

[tfhphoto]

When you say "splitter" do mean something built for TV cable coax or do you mean a multicoupler?

I've seen weird things happen reception-wise when I've tried to use a CATV splitter instead of a multicoupler.

Multicouplers

 

[K0MSM]

Splitter. Definitely not as expensive as those multicouplers.

Sean

 

[K0MSM]

I found the problem. Finally. And I feel like an absolute idiot. And that's a huge understatement.

Anybody ever hear of that little setting called "squelch?" You have? So have I. And yet somehow, in all of the fiddling around with everything today, I managed to set it up to 19. And never caught that.

Two hours later... I noticed it.

Definitely feel like an total, complete, absolute, moron.

Everything is working fine, back to the SDS200 grabbing the signal first from the discone, then everyone else getting the signal from the splitter (not multicoupler).

I very highly appreciate everyone's help on this, and also the indulgence of everyone else reading along. In my 45 years of being a ham radio operator and scanner nut... this is the stupidest I've ever felt.

Sean

 

[VASCAR2]

You got to love it when things smack you in the face to remind you you’re human. I get a lot more of these occasions the older I get. In the whole scheme of things we all have a lot to be thankful for and there are way worse things that can happen on this world.

The main thing is you got all this sorted out and things are working. Just out of curiosity does Greene County LE use ISICS on a daily basis and just patch to the VHF or is most of the traffic still on VHF High Band?

 

[K0MSM]

I'm honestly not sure which way they patch things... ISICS -> VHF, or VHF -> ISICS. If I were betting, I'd say ISICS -> VHF, because now that I'm actually getting good data, I'm seeing discrete UIDs.

Fire Dispatch is still on VHF, I'm pretty sure. Mostly for the pagers.

(Still really grumpy about this whole thing.....)

Sean

 

[VASCAR2]

Ok, Sean I won’t bug you anymore. I live in rural America and I was curious how things were in your neighborhood. Stay Safe!

 

[K0MSM]

Ok, Sean I won’t bug you anymore. I live in rural America and I was curious how things were in your neighborhood. Stay Safe!

Not bugging me in the least! It's very rural out here in Greene County too, and there's not many people I can talk to about this. All my wife hears is "blah blah blah" if I try to talk to her about it!

Sean