HAM license and scanner in vehicle

[instrumentphilip]

Okay I have a question I am studying and I am going to get my HAM license soon. Going for Technician. I will work on the CW part when I really have some time. But anyway I know that in the state of Michigan it is illegal to have a police scanner on in your vehicle. Police wanted that to stop listeners. I am aware that I am fully allowed to listen while I am at my home with what ever scanner that I want as long as I do not share information with other, or commit a crime with the info , yada yada blah blah.

But I was curious when I Get my HAM license I am obviously allowed to have my HAM rig in my car legally and as much as police and stories I have read still want to issue tickets for drivers that have a HAM license for being distracted at the wheel when talking on their HAM rigs and all of that stuff--which in my eyes is really the same thing as Police officers talking on their radios.... but I am getting off topic.

The question is When I get my HAM license am I protected with being able to carry a scanner in my car? not because my main purpose is to listen to police chatter, but to listen to what is going on around me.

i.e: media chatter, coast guard chatter, and so on....

 

[n5ims]

Please see these for some details Mobile Scanner & RADAR Detector Laws In The U.S. and Mobile Scanner & RADAR-Detector Laws In The U.S. - P.R. Docket 91-36 - M.O.O.

PR 91-36 specifically clarifies that it is legal to have a ham radio tranceiver in your car that can be tuned to police frequencies although a state or local law may prohibit a radio that does so. It doesn't specifically allow a scanner. Having a ham license may not prevent enforcement of laws against having a scanner tuned to a police frequency, but may be a point that a good lawer could argue against in your defense if it was tuned to ham frequencies, and not police (or other specifically banned) ones.

 

[SCPD]

Scanning in the Wolverine State

Scanners in the vehicle are legal in Michigan.
No ham ticket needed.
No permit needed.
It's a good idea to carry a copy of the law in your glovebox.
About 3 or 4 years ago, a new law was passed.
I'm sure someone here will come up with a link to the law for you.

 

[instrumentphilip]

Yeah I would love the link to that Wyandotte, ha I like your name. Because the last thing that I remember reading about stated that having a police scanner on in your vehicle in the state of Michigan is illegal.

 

[Token]

I am not sure whether I am miss-reading what you said about going for a Tech license for now and you will work on the CW part later, but I assume you know that no license class requires CW anymore?

OK, the legal stuffs. I am not a lawyer or a legal consultant. Anything I convey in this correspondence is not legal counsel and should not be construed as legal advice. Despite the facts that I might, or might not, have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night you yourself should confirm all legal questions asked or opinions given. You might even try asking a cop…but if you do ask him specifically what code you would be in violation of, not just is it legal or not.

With regards to your question about scanners in vehicles in Michigan, the code you are interested in is Michigan Penal Code 750.508. I do not think it is illegal in Michigan to have a scanner in a vehicle any longer, I think that changed a few years back.
750.508 Section (1) used to say “(1) Any person who shall equip a vehicle with a radio receiving set that will receive signals sent on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission of the United States of America for police purposes, or use the same in this state unless such vehicle is used or owned by a peace officer, or a bona fide amateur radio operator holding a technician class, general, advanced, or extra class amateur license issued by the Federal Communications Commission, without first securing a permit to do so from the Director of the Department of State Police upon application as he or she may prescribe, shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by imprisionment in the county jail for not more than 1 year, or by a fine of not more than $500.00, or by both fine and imprisionment in the discretion of the court.”

This wording meant it was illegal to equip a vehicle with a scanner that could be tuned to police frequencies. “Equip” was defined as having a working unit in the car, whether installed or hand-held. However, not it specifically said all amateur licensees were exempted and did NOT say only with regards to amateur equipment.

However, Michigan changed the wording of the wording of 750.508 in 2006 or 2007 to read: “Sec. 508. (1) A person who has been convicted of 1 or more felonies during the preceding 5 years shall not
carry or have in his or her possession a radio receiving set that will receive signals sent on a frequency
assigned by the federal communications commission of the United States for police or other law enforcement, fire fighting, emergency medical, federal, state, or local corrections, or homeland security purposes. This subsection does not apply to a person who is licensed as an amateur radio operator by the federal communications commission. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $1,000.00, or both.”

So it appears today that everyone who has not been convicted of a felony in the last 5 years can have a mobile scanner. But note that the new wording also exempts amateur licensees.

So, any way you look at it, unless there is another code I have not found, Hams are eligible to have scanners in use in a motor vehicle and the law does not specify what kind of equipment it has to be.

T!

 

[instrumentphilip]

Despite the facts that I might, or might not, have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night you yourself should confirm all legal questions asked or opinions given.

Nice. And okay maybe the law I read was the older one. What is the URL please, probably to the FCC site where I can read that and print it out in case a police officer tries to write me up for it?

 

[kb2vxa]

"I am not sure whether I am miss-reading what you said about going for a Tech license for now and you will work on the CW part later, but I assume you know that no license class requires CW anymore?"

It may no longer be a requirement but still a viable mode, there's a LOT of CW activity so he may as well learn Morse and use it if he wants to. Besides, CW and digital ops are the best when it comes to respect and civility, a shining example of what Amateur Radio should be, the absence of "lids" is notable.
Just my 2c worth.

 

[mikey60]

Guys...

The Michigan scanner law changed on May 31, 2006. It is no longer illegal to have a scanner in your vehicle unless used in the commission of a crime. If you have been convicted of a felony in the last 5 years, it's illegal to have a scanner at all (yet alone in a vehicle unless you are a licensed amateur radio operator.

Text of the current law may be found at Michigan Legislature - Section 750.508

Mike

 

[n5ims]

The "new" law was discussed in this thread http://forums.radioreference.com/mi.../31137-michigan-scanner-law-newly-passed.html where there are various links and discussion on various parts of the new law as well as the old one and may help answer some questions on what changed as well as how it now stands.

 

[instrumentphilip]

Ahhh very good. Thank you Mike and N5IMS. Okay so at least in this state I am good to go. Going to put a copy of that law in my glove compartment in my car.

 

[W2NJS]

And it's also a very good idea to carry a copy of the FCC's 91-36 pre-emption notice about state laws and those holding amateur licenses. It specifically deals with ham transceivers with extended receive capability (which virtually ALL new transceivers have these days).

 

[firefighter22mfd]

Scanners in the vehicle are legal in Michigan.
No ham ticket needed.
No permit needed.
It's a good idea to carry a copy of the law in your glovebox.
About 3 or 4 years ago, a new law was passed.
I'm sure someone here will come up with a link to the law for you.

It is still illegal to carry a scanner in your vehicle. You either need to be a bona fide peace officer or a amateur radio operator. This According to MCLA 750.508.

 

[n5ims]

It is still illegal to carry a scanner in your vehicle. You either need to be a bona fide peace officer or a amateur radio operator. This According to MCLA 750.508.

While I'm sure your post was well intentioned, it's bringing up a 3 year old thread to post some information that's very outdated and no longer accurate. If you check the information you're referring to (http://www.michigan.gov/documents/dleg/Michigan_Vehicle_Code_Excerpts_PA_300_287776_7.pdf):

MCLA 750.508 Equipping vehicle with radio able to receive signals on frequencies assigned for police purposes; permit required; exceptions; misdemeanor; penalty; radar detectors not applicable.

Sec. 508. (1) Any person who shall equip a vehicle with a radio receiving set that will receive signals sent on frequencies assigned by the federal communications commission of the United States of America for police purposes, or use the same in this state unless the vehicle is used or owned by a peace officer, or a bona fide amateur radio operator holding a technician class, general, advanced, or extra class amateur license issued by the federal communications commission, without first securing a permit so to do from the director of the department of state police upon application as he or she may prescribe, is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $1,000.00, or both.

(2) This section does not apply to the use of radar detectors.
Am. 2002, Act 672, (03/31/03)

You'll note that the act was from 03/31/2003. On 03/31/2006 this section was modified to be (http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(2q....aspx?page=GetObject&objectname=mcl-750-508)]):

750.508 Equipping vehicle with radio able to receive signals on frequencies assigned for police or certain other purposes; violation; penalties; radar detectors not applicable.
Sec. 508.

(1) A person who has been convicted of 1 or more felonies during the preceding 5 years shall not carry or have in his or her possession a radio receiving set that will receive signals sent on a frequency assigned by the federal communications commission of the United States for police or other law enforcement, fire fighting, emergency medical, federal, state, or local corrections, or homeland security purposes. This subsection does not apply to a person who is licensed as an amateur radio operator by the federal communications commission. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $1,000.00, or both.

(2) A person shall not carry or have in his or her possession in the commission or attempted commission of a crime a radio receiving set that will receive signals sent on a frequency assigned by the federal communications commission of the United States for police or other law enforcement, fire fighting, emergency medical, federal, state, or local corrections, or homeland security purposes. A person who violates this subsection is guilty of a crime as follows:

(a) If this subsection is violated in the commission or attempted commission of a misdemeanor punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of at least 93 days but less than 1 year, the person is guilty of a misdemeanor punishable by imprisonment for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than $1,000.00, or both.

(b) If this subsection is violated in the commission or attempted commission of a misdemeanor or felony punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of 1 year or more, the person is guilty of a felony punishable by imprisonment for not more than 2 years or a fine of not more than $2,000.00, or both.

(3) Subsection (2) does not apply to a person who carries or has in his or her possession a radio receiving set described in subsection (2) in the commission or attempted commission of a misdemeanor punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of less than 93 days.

(4) This section does not apply to the use of radar detectors.

History: 1931, Act 328, Eff. Sept. 18, 1931 ;-- Am. 1939, Act 295, Eff. Sept. 29, 1939 ;-- CL 1948, 750.508 ;-- Am. 1957, Act 242, Eff. Sept. 27, 1957 ;-- Am. 1990, Act 77, Imd. Eff. May 24, 1990 ;-- Am. 2002, Act 672, Eff. Mar. 31, 2003 ;-- Am. 2006, Act 39, Eff. May 31, 2006

Constitutionality: This section, which prohibits equipping or using a vehicle with a radio receiving set capable of receiving frequencies assigned for police purposes, was enacted to facilitate law enforcement activity. This section's restriction of persons permitted to monitor those frequencies involves classifications which are rationally related to the statute's objective, consistent with equal protection and due process guarantees. People v Gilbert, 414 Mich 191; 324 NW2d 834 (1982).

Former Law: See section 5 of Act 152 of 1929, being CL 1929, § 578

As you can tell by reading the two versions of this section, they made significant changes to the law and unless you're a recent felon or have one or more of the other conditions that restrict you from using a scanner, it's pretty well OK to have and use one.

 

[com501]

There is a HUGE loophole in the law as I read it. Homeland security and other Federal Agencies don't use frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission, but by NTIA, technically.

Besides the obvious but argumentative statement that the law is completely stupid and ridiculous.

 

[firefighter22mfd]

Yes John you are correct! However I have been away from Michigan for some time. Traveling with the US Military on business trips. I did notice the law after I had posted. My mistake. However I am not sure why this is a concern of yours seeing you are from Carrollton, Tx. Plus why does it matter if the post is several years old? Just curious cause you seemed kind of rude in the way you posted that. this is a forum it does not matter if the post is 1 day old or 10 years old.

 

[AK9R]

For all of you, please read this post.

 

[n5ims]

Yes John you are correct! However I have been away from Michigan for some time. Traveling with the US Military on business trips. I did notice the law after I had posted. My mistake. However I am not sure why this is a concern of yours seeing you are from Carrollton, Tx. Plus why does it matter if the post is several years old? Just curious cause you seemed kind of rude in the way you posted that. this is a forum it does not matter if the post is 1 day old or 10 years old.

Sorry you took my post as being rude, this wasn't my intention. Normally I would've simply ignored the update to an old post as indicated in Wayne's post (the one linked to by W9BU). Since the post would've easily mislead others into thinking that their scanner would be confiscated and they would've been in additional legal trouble when stopped during a simple traffic stop, I felt it was necessary to correct this misleading information. By posting both the old law (which your information was based on) and the revised one, folks could understand what they can and can't do under the current policy.

As far as it being none of my concern, I beg to differ. I have relatives in Michigan and travel there so laws of this nature are important for me to keep up with. While my ham license does offer me some protection, it's good to know what states I may need to provide my license (and a copy of their laws exempting my from their restrictions based on that license). I could take it as being rude to have you look up my license information and posting this information in an open thread, but I won't since I understand that information is easy to find.

 

[com501]

My apologies to replying to this thread. I received an email, since I was subscribed to this thread when it was started. I will from now on, scroll to the very first post in each thread that I reply to and make sure it is less than ten days old. If it isn't, I will simply not respond anymore.

 

[rapidcharger]

The bottom line is just because it is a law doesn't mean you won't get a citation or end up having to fight it in court. And in some cases, that's the officer's hope as they often get paid overtime for attending court. I have heard of enough stories to conclude the law doesn't matter. If your scanner is in plain sight, have antennas all over the car, and engage in legal debate over it with the officer, you're probably going to get a ticket. You can show all your printouts of the law to the judge because it's not going to change the officer's mind.

 

[KC0KM]

I have often seen and realized it is often, it largely depends on the mood of the officer. While here in Kansas City, is against the law, to have a scanner, I never had a problem with it. Long before -- along the lines of almost 20 years -- before I even got my Amateur License, I often had a scanner in the car. I would show up at fires (I was a fire buff), and had one in the car when I was delivering pizza. I even got a few speeding tickets -- with my scanner in full view, and nothing was ever said. In fact, one time while eating out on night I even showed some KCPD officers my scanner, and they where amazed that I could pick them up on the [EDACS] Trunked system, and they even tested it out on the radio. From what I have seen, most of them simply do not care, unless you are using it to "evade", then you have a problem. Laws vary from place to place, if you think you are going to push it, then do not. Point being, simply do not ever argue with a peace office, it is pure and simple.