Hardin County OH - County FD info

[W8HDU]

I'm cleaning up my scanner, an noted some errors in Hardin County (OH), if someone can help.

1. I show Hardin County FD Dispatch on 156.135 with DCS 532. I only have 2 hits on this frequency. Is this the correct dispatch channel?
2. On Hardin County FD Fireground 1, I show the frequency as 866.1750 with NO PL/DCS. I only have -0- hits. Is there tone for this channel, and is this the correct frequency?
3. On Hardin County FD Fireground 2, I show the frequency as 866.5375 with NO PL/DCS. I only have -0- hits. Is there tone for this channel, and is this the correct frequency?
4. On Hardin County FD Fireground 3, I show the frequency as 852.3125 with NO PL/DCS. I only have 31 hits. Is there tone for this channel?
5. On Hardin County FD Fireground 4, I show the frequency as 853.3125 with NO PL/DCS. I only have 10,000+ hits. Is there tone for this channel?
6. On Hardin County FD Fireground 5, I show the frequency as 853.5750 with NO PL/DCS. I only have 141 hits. Is there tone for this channel?

Any help would be appreciated if you can verify reception and PL/DCS for this agency.

Fred/W8HDU
Now retired!

 

[DanKC8PAE]

I'm cleaning up my scanner, an noted some errors in Hardin County (OH), if someone can help.

1. I show Hardin County FD Dispatch on 156.135 with DCS 532. I only have 2 hits on this frequency. Is this the correct dispatch channel?
2. On Hardin County FD Fireground 1, I show the frequency as 866.1750 with NO PL/DCS. I only have -0- hits. Is there tone for this channel, and is this the correct frequency?
3. On Hardin County FD Fireground 2, I show the frequency as 866.5375 with NO PL/DCS. I only have -0- hits. Is there tone for this channel, and is this the correct frequency?
4. On Hardin County FD Fireground 3, I show the frequency as 852.3125 with NO PL/DCS. I only have 31 hits. Is there tone for this channel?
5. On Hardin County FD Fireground 4, I show the frequency as 853.3125 with NO PL/DCS. I only have 10,000+ hits. Is there tone for this channel?
6. On Hardin County FD Fireground 5, I show the frequency as 853.5750 with NO PL/DCS. I only have 141 hits. Is there tone for this channel?

Any help would be appreciated if you can verify reception and PL/DCS for this agency.

Fred/W8HDU
Now retired!

I live in Butler County but it looks like Hardin County is on the Ohio MARCS trunked system Radioreference has the Fire and EMS talk groups listed. I would say there firegrounds are also on the MARCS system and just have not been added to RR. I would say that the VHF frequency and the 800 frequencies that you are listening to are outdated frequencies.

Dan KC8PAE WROJ491

 

[W8HDU]

OK, I'll guess I'll standby and see if anyone knows about the 800 MHz frequencies, or if these are outside of MARCS and have a DCS/PL for them. I don't know if there is a way, (other than the computer loggers some people use on the Whistler 1065), to see what the DCS/PL is when the agency is transmitting on those frequencies. If it's in the manual, I have not recognized it as such. EDIT: The reason I suggest "outside" is that it's my impression squelch is not used for MARCS, but I have had to adjust the tighter on FG-4 and FG-5.

Fred W8HDU

 

[mtindor]

OK, I'll guess I'll standby and see if anyone knows about the 800 MHz frequencies, or if these are outside of MARCS and have a DCS/PL for them. I don't know if there is a way, (other than the computer loggers some people use on the Whistler 1065), to see what the DCS/PL is when the agency is transmitting on those frequencies. If it's in the manual, I have not recognized it as such. EDIT: The reason I suggest "outside" is that it's my impression squelch is not used for MARCS, but I have had to adjust the tighter on FG-4 and FG-5.

Fred W8HDU

As mentioned by Dan, they are likely on MARCS. MARCS is a P25 trunked system and you aren't going to be using PL/DPL. You will need to program in the Ohio MARCS P25 System, the appropriate talkgroups, and the appropriate sites nearest you.

 

[W8HDU]

As mentioned by Dan, they are likely on MARCS. MARCS is a P25 trunked system and you aren't going to be using PL/DPL. You will need to program in the Ohio MARCS P25 System, the appropriate talkgroups, and the appropriate sites nearest you.

Agreed, however, why do the MARCS channels I have programming, and are being received, require squelch? I thought there is no squelch on MARCS transmissions.

 

[mtindor]

Agreed, however, why do the MARCS channels I have programming, and are being received, require squelch? I thought there is no squelch on MARCS transmissions.

If you have MARCS programmed in properly, as an actual trunked system, you aren't going to be dealing with squelch. If you are programming the trunked site frequencies in as conventional channels, they would use a NAC (not a PL/DPL). Sounds to me like you have programmed in individual frequencies from particular local MARCS sites as conventional P25 channels. That may work to some extent, but for things to work properly and for you to hear everything you could possibly hear you need to program it in as a trunked system, with appropriate sites and talkgroups.

 

[W8HDU]

I don't think what Hardin County is using is MARCS, based on RR's database.

I'm going to forage the F.C.C. database later to determine if this is a true assumption. If it's not MARCS then I would think they have a PL/DPL etc. But the F.C.C. does not record tone squelch. My impression is that has to come from users to be in the RR database.

 

[mtindor]

I don't think what Hardin County is using is MARCS, based on RR's database.

I'm going to forage the F.C.C. database later to determine if this is a true assumption. If it's not MARCS then I would think they have a PL/DPL etc. But the F.C.C. does not record tone squelch. My impression is that has to come from users to be in the RR database.

RR database is only as accurate as what people submit. If people do not submit updates to Hardin, old stale information remains.

You have indicated that you aren't hearing the traffic you think you should hear. If you are monitoring the conventional frequencies from the Hardin Co page and aren't hearing what you think you should hear, program the frequencies without PL/DPL and see if you hear anything.

But the MARCS P25 is going to have factual information in it -- No reason to believe that Hardin isn't using MARCS. Feel free to be in denial though. People try to help, but you don't really want help do you.

Conventional frequencies (from the Hardin County page) will use PL/DPL (or color code or RAN if they have switched from analog to DMR or NXDN). But you can't discount the fact that they have already been reported as using MARCS. If this weren't true, you wouldn't see the talkgroups in the MARCS section.

Have a good day

 

[engine183]

It would appear that the Hardin Co MARCS site has been active for some time based on the RRDB. (see below).
Also, some of the talkgroups must be active as they have blue links so that you can listen to the EMS and Sheriff's dispatch.

 

[W8HDU]

It would appear that the Hardin Co MARCS site has been active for some time based on the RRDB. (see below).
Also, some of the talkgroups must be active as they have blue links so that you can listen to the EMS and Sheriff's dispatch.

View attachment 151133
View attachment 151134

I understand the MARCS frequencies and then highlighted TALKGroups, which I DO receive. EMS and Sheriff are OK.

Going back to what I'm receiving (Post 1), I'm getting the Harding County fire on the frequencies l listed, and the receive count parallels about how much traffic I hear. These appear to be non-MARCS since the reception is NFM (ananlog). But the question is, what are the PL/DLP tones?

I'm not sure how, on a Whistler 1065, one would know what the PL/DPL would be. But apparently the scanner does detect tone frequency as the guys in the Low Band logging thread record the tone via software on a PC which logs the reception with audio.

 

[mtindor]

Use the "Tune" button and plug in the freq and wait for traffic. It will display any tone.

Program a freq manually and select "Search" for the Squelch Mode and it will show the tone when there is traffic.

 

[W8HDU]

Use the "Tune" button and plug in the freq and wait for traffic. It will display any tone.

Program a freq manually and select "Search" for the Squelch Mode and it will show the tone when there is traffic.

Thnx. This helps a lot, not only with the Hardin situation, but with some other agencies/services in the area.

 

[kf8yk]

On Hardin County FD Fireground 1, I show the frequency as 866.1750 with NO PL/DCS. I only have -0- hits. Is there tone for this channel, and is this the correct frequency?

On Hardin County FD Fireground 2, I show the frequency as 866.5375 with NO PL/DCS. I only have -0- hits. Is there tone for this channel, and is this the correct frequency?

The 866 MHz frequencies would be illegal to operate on as everything above 862 MHz went to cellular following rebanding.

On Hardin County FD Fireground 3, I show the frequency as 852.3125 with NO PL/DCS. I only have 31 hits. Is there tone for this channel?

On Hardin County FD Fireground 4, I show the frequency as 853.3125 with NO PL/DCS. I only have 10,000+ hits. Is there tone for this channel?

You might be hearing nearby trunked system traffic on these:

852.3125 Is a MARCS voice channel on site 2-12 Marion in Marion County

853.3125 is a MARCS voice channel on site 2-38 Ottawa in Putnam County

 

[owenbricker]

The 156.135 is still good, heard paging on it here in Mansfield.

 

[wa8pyr]

I'm cleaning up my scanner, an noted some errors in Hardin County (OH), if someone can help.

1. I show Hardin County FD Dispatch on 156.135 with DCS 532. I only have 2 hits on this frequency. Is this the correct dispatch channel?
2. On Hardin County FD Fireground 1, I show the frequency as 866.1750 with NO PL/DCS. I only have -0- hits. Is there tone for this channel, and is this the correct frequency?
3. On Hardin County FD Fireground 2, I show the frequency as 866.5375 with NO PL/DCS. I only have -0- hits. Is there tone for this channel, and is this the correct frequency?
4. On Hardin County FD Fireground 3, I show the frequency as 852.3125 with NO PL/DCS. I only have 31 hits. Is there tone for this channel?
5. On Hardin County FD Fireground 4, I show the frequency as 853.3125 with NO PL/DCS. I only have 10,000+ hits. Is there tone for this channel?
6. On Hardin County FD Fireground 5, I show the frequency as 853.5750 with NO PL/DCS. I only have 141 hits. Is there tone for this channel?

Any help would be appreciated if you can verify reception and PL/DCS for this agency.

Fred/W8HDU
Now retired!

The 866 frequencies are not valid; they would have been replaced during rebanding.

 

[tvengr]

The 866 frequencies are not valid; they would have been replaced during rebanding.

Were 866. 867. and 868 MHz conventional frequencies also dropped 15 MHz during the rebanding process? I know they were on trunked systems. Thanks!

 

[W8HDU]

I think it's all figured out now, except for one minor piece of information.

A third party was providing information which was flawed. Case closed.

 

[wa8pyr]

Were 866. 867. and 868 MHz conventional frequencies also dropped 15 MHz during the rebanding process? I know they were on trunked systems. Thanks!

Yes, if the licensee kept the frequencies. They might have been changed in the process (ie not a straight 15 MHz drop) to resolve potential interference issues, however; the FCC database would have the correct info if the license was maintained.

 

[tvengr]

Yes, if the licensee kept the frequencies. They might have been changed in the process (ie not a straight 15 MHz drop) to resolve potential interference issues, however; the FCC database would have the correct info if the license was maintained.

Thank you!

 

[W8HDU]

Yes, if the licensee kept the frequencies. They might have been changed in the process (ie not a straight 15 MHz drop) to resolve potential interference issues, however; the FCC database would have the correct info if the license was maintained.

@wa8pyr

Tom, help an old guy understand MARCS. It appears there is some logic to the frequencies used for MARCS, as shown on the Ohio MARCS-IP Page.

So when I query the F.C.C. databases for, (example), Allen County OH, and find our local Sheriff Dept /below is using two frequencies of 806.037500 and 851.037500, and the frequencies are not in the MARCS listing cited above, should I assume that these would fall under Conventional use?

Further, since the transmission is FCC designated 20K0F3E, should I also assume there is the possibility this transmission may use PL or DPL?

I'm trying to untwist some of the miscommunication about MARCS. Great thing about the internet is the amount of information, as well as the amount of bad information.

Cite: Allen County S.O. call sign WPUD609 (Public Safety National Plan)