Harris County, TX. TXWARN system P25 Phase I and II

[kvfd36]

Any suggestions on best way to program this system for pretty much every community EXCEPT City of Houston? Some agencies are on one set of towers while other agencies are on the "Houston Public Safety" towers. I have been trying to confirm which agencies are on which set of towers as they are a different system within the same BIG system. Looking for anyone who has suggestions on a good way of programming this system.

Thank you.

 

[hiegtx]

Hopefully, one or more of the members in that area can give you some details.

You also might get a more 'Harris County" specific answer if you joined HoustonScan on Groups.io

HoustonScan@groups.io | Messages

groups.io

 

[Ensnared]

I have programmed and listened to this system and it works well, but it is q bit quirky.

First of all, I need to know if you are using a Phase I or II scanner.

Houston Police and Fire P25 - The RadioReference Wiki

 

[KevinC]

Any suggestions on best way to program this system for pretty much every community EXCEPT City of Houston? Some agencies are on one set of towers while other agencies are on the "Houston Public Safety" towers. I have been trying to confirm which agencies are on which set of towers as they are a different system within the same BIG system. Looking for anyone who has suggestions on a good way of programming this system.

Thank you.

To avoid CoH TG's don't enter any site that's 03-xx or any TG's that are 3xxxxx.

It get's a little complicated on which RFSS 1 sites to use though. For PD/FD stuff you want to use a simulcast site as "most" of the non-simulcast sites in the Houston area are "roamers" and used for transient or non PS agencies. So stick to a 01-xx simulcast site and that will get you PD/FD traffic...more or less.

It's a complicated system as far as who's allowed on which sites, but the above is the general rule.

 

[kvfd36]

I have programmed and listened to this system and it works well, but it is q bit quirky.

First of all, I need to know if you are using a Phase I or II scanner.

Houston Police and Fire P25 - The RadioReference Wiki

BCD996 P2

 

[Ensnared]

BCD996 P2

Well, I did not anticipate that model. I will need to withdraw my proposition. I have repeatedly tried to program the radio you are using to no avail. For me, this radio blows my mind with respect to instructions. I apologize.

My 436HP was rather deaf in Houston compared with my SDS 100. Again, this is a rather difficult system to program.

Hopefully, someone will share a file with you specific to your radio.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

Simulcast distortion is a very real phenomena on the simulcast cells on txwarn. You certainly need a receiver that can handle it properly, which the 996/436 radios are not among those that can.

 

[kvfd36]

Simulcast distortion is a very real phenomena on the simulcast cells on txwarn. You certainly need a receiver that can handle it properly, which the 996/436 radios are not among those that can.

Trying to understand something.... some sites like Tomball, Reed Rd., Clodine, Wade Rd. are individual sites whereas Northwest, Northeast, Montgomery County, are simulcasts (according to description).
Do radios like BCD996 P2 not track the simulcast sites correctly? I have been listening for many years, but until several departments in my area switched over to phase 2, I had a phase 1 BCD996XT for years that seemed to be working great. Can you elaborate on how the simulcasts are different versus the individual sites??? Any description of how they work and how the different sites work would be greatly appreciated.

 

[hiegtx]

Trying to understand something.... some sites like Tomball, Reed Rd., Clodine, Wade Rd. are individual sites whereas Northwest, Northeast, Montgomery County, are simulcasts (according to description).
Do radios like BCD996 P2 not track the simulcast sites correctly? I have been listening for many years, but until several departments in my area switched over to phase 2, I had a phase 1 BCD996XT for years that seemed to be working great. Can you elaborate on how the simulcasts are different versus the individual sites??? Any description of how they work and how the different sites work would be greatly appreciated.

In a simulcast system, you have multiple transmit towers (sub-sites), all transmitting exactly the same radio traffic, as the same time, using the same frequency.

The problem, for the scanner, is that all these sub-sites are at various distances from you, so the signals arrive at your location out of sync. For scanners other than the Uniden SDS series scanners, these signals, out of sync, can basically "confuse" the scanner enough to make it impossible for it to give you clear audio. In some cases, simulcast may mean that you hear nothing. At other times, what you hear is garbled audio instead of a clear transmission. Simulcast is extremely location specific. Sometimes, even moving your scanner a foot or two, you can find a "sweet spot" where it might work.

A more complete description of Simulcast, along with a few things you might try, are in this Wiki page:
Simulcast digital distortion - The RadioReference Wiki

Remember that when dealing with simulcast, a "better" antenna (one that provides a stronger signal) may make things worse.

Click on the site's name on the TxWARN page. That will bring up a map showing the location of these various transmit towers. Here's what pulls up for the Montgomery County Simulcast site:


Depending on exactly where you are, you see the various towers at at varying distances from your specific location. So, the transmisisons, arriving at your scanner, but not all at the exact same time, are enough to cause problems. The SDS series Uniden scanners can handle simulcast. The Unication pagers can also deal with it, but you are limited to (I think) 64 talkgroups groups & only one site at a time. If everything you wanted to hear was on the exact same simulcast site, and you had 64 (or less) talkgroups of interest, it would work. You can program additional sites, as well as more sets of talkgroups, but only can monitor a single site, and a single set of talkgroups, at any one time.

You can use an SDR dongle, along with downloaded software, and use your PC, which can monitor what you want. But that's not something portable that you can carry with you. I don't have a Unication pager; the other radio that also works is the Blue Tail receiver. That's programmed with a PC, and does not have a display (unless that's changed recently) See this page. (I don't own that either, but I've seen a number of comments that it does work.)

 

[Robert721]

I can send you a programming file to look at. I just monitor the Simulcast sites for county traffic and have the cities on their local site. Last time I talked to one of our radio techs the cities route all there traffic to the site near them. It keeps other county wide traffic from bogging down their local traffic.

 

[kvfd36]

I can send you a programming file to look at. I just monitor the Simulcast sites for county traffic and have the cities on their local site. Last time I talked to one of our radio techs the cities route all there traffic to the site near them. It keeps other county wide traffic from bogging down their local traffic.

In a simulcast system, you have multiple transmit towers (sub-sites), all transmitting exactly the same radio traffic, as the same time, using the same frequency.

The problem, for the scanner, is that all these sub-sites are at various distances from you, so the signals arrive at your location out of sync. For scanners other than the Uniden SDS series scanners, these signals, out of sync, can basically "confuse" the scanner enough to make it impossible for it to give you clear audio. In some cases, simulcast may mean that you hear nothing. At other times, what you hear is garbled audio instead of a clear transmission. Simulcast is extremely location specific. Sometimes, even moving your scanner a foot or two, you can find a "sweet spot" where it might work.

A more complete description of Simulcast, along with a few things you might try, are in this Wiki page:
Simulcast digital distortion - The RadioReference Wiki

Remember that when dealing with simulcast, a "better" antenna (one that provides a stronger signal) may make things worse.

Click on the site's name on the TxWARN page. That will bring up a map showing the location of these various transmit towers. Here's what pulls up for the Montgomery County Simulcast site:
View attachment 145904

Depending on exactly where you are, you see the various towers at at varying distances from your specific location. So, the transmisisons, arriving at your scanner, but not all at the exact same time, are enough to cause problems. The SDS series Uniden scanners can handle simulcast. The Unication pagers can also deal with it, but you are limited to (I think) 64 talkgroups groups & only one site at a time. If everything you wanted to hear was on the exact same simulcast site, and you had 64 (or less) talkgroups of interest, it would work. You can program additional sites, as well as more sets of talkgroups, but only can monitor a single site, and a single set of talkgroups, at any one time.

You can use an SDR dongle, along with downloaded software, and use your PC, which can monitor what you want. But that's not something portable that you can carry with you. I don't have a Unication pager; the other radio that also works is the Blue Tail receiver. That's programmed with a PC, and does not have a display (unless that's changed recently) See this page. (I don't own that either, but I've seen a number of comments that it does work.)

What would happen if I just used the "Tomball" tower? Would I only be able to hear departments near Tomball? or do all departments within the system transmit on the "Tomball" tower?

 

[kvfd36]

I can send you a programming file to look at. I just monitor the Simulcast sites for county traffic and have the cities on their local site. Last time I talked to one of our radio techs the cities route all there traffic to the site near them. It keeps other county wide traffic from bogging down their local traffic.

I would appreciate if you would send the file you are describing. It would be interesting to see how someone else programs.

 

[hiegtx]

What would happen if I just used the "Tomball" tower? Would I only be able to hear departments near Tomball? or do all departments within the system transmit on the "Tomball" tower?

The 'Tomball site' would not carry all system activity. It simply does not have enough frequencies assigned to do so.

Bear in mind, I'm in Dallas, not Houston, so I don't claim to be thoroughly familiar with all the ins & outs of TxWARN in your area.The Tomball site would likely mainly carry traffic from the areas immediately around it; certainly not 'everything'. However, from what I've seen noted in the past, some of the sites are basically "fill-in" sites, carrying talkgroups that, for whatever reason, that the user cannot reach the normally assigned site. Someone in the area would need to clarify if Tomball is mostly dedicated to users in it's immediate area, or instead, is a fill-in where a given units primary assigned site is out of range or unavailable for whatever reason.

 

[KevinC]

The 'Tomball site' would not carry all system activity. It simply does not have enough frequencies assigned to do so.

Bear in mind, I'm in Dallas, not Houston, so I don't claim to be thoroughly familiar with all the ins & outs of TxWARN in your area.The Tomball site would likely mainly carry traffic from the areas immediately around it; certainly not 'everything'. However, from what I've seen noted in the past, some of the sites are basically "fill-in" sites, carrying talkgroups that, for whatever reason, that the user cannot reach the normally assigned site. Someone in the area would need to clarify if Tomball is mostly dedicated to users in it's immediate area, or instead, is a fill-in where a given units primary assigned site is out of range or unavailable for whatever reason.

My reply pretty much explains it.

 

[kvfd36]

The 'Tomball site' would not carry all system activity. It simply does not have enough frequencies assigned to do so.

Bear in mind, I'm in Dallas, not Houston, so I don't claim to be thoroughly familiar with all the ins & outs of TxWARN in your area.The Tomball site would likely mainly carry traffic from the areas immediately around it; certainly not 'everything'. However, from what I've seen noted in the past, some of the sites are basically "fill-in" sites, carrying talkgroups that, for whatever reason, that the user cannot reach the normally assigned site. Someone in the area would need to clarify if Tomball is mostly dedicated to users in it's immediate area, or instead, is a fill-in where a given units primary assigned site is out of range or unavailable for whatever reason.

One final question, "In theory", would most of the distortion issues be resolved if I only programmed the individual sites and left the simulcast sites out of the radio? There are single sites all over the county that overlap each other according to the maps. I know I won't hear the other towers unless I am within range, but I am mobile most of the time for work. So would leaving the simulcast sites off the list help with hearing things more clearly within the range of the towers?

 

[hiegtx]

One final question, "In theory", would most of the distortion issues be resolved if I only programmed the individual sites and left the simulcast sites out of the radio? There are single sites all over the county that overlap each other according to the maps. I know I won't hear the other towers unless I am within range, but I am mobile most of the time for work. So would leaving the simulcast sites off the list help with hearing things more clearly within the range of the towers?

As Kevin noted above, the simulcast sites are where you'll find your public safety agencies, except for the occasion one that is away from it's home area & might, instead, access one of the roamers.

If you stuck to the roamers. and ignored the simulcast sites, yes, simulcast distortion would not be a problem. But you'd also miss most of what you were trying to hear, because they would be on the sites (simulcast) that you did not program.

 

[Robert721]

I would appreciate if you would send the file you are describing. It would be interesting to see how someone else programs.

 

[Robert721]

I attached files I'm not sure if it worked. It is work still in progress.