Got it, that helped a lot with understanding NMO and the mounting practices. I'll go with that dealer as well. Thanks for the help on this.Nothing wrong with the Larsen. I checked today and realized I had the Larsen on my work truck and the EM Wave in the office, currently. I swapped them around a few times trying them out in different applications. Both were very similar in performance.
Essentially, shop around and find what you want. Consider the seller, return policy, shipping costs, etc.
www.theantennafarm.com is a reputable dealer, also, but you'll pay more:
The Antenna Farm, Your two way radio source (NMO150/450/758)
The Antenna Farm: VHF & UHF Mobile Radios Radio Accessories VHF & UHF Hand Held Radios Antennas Mobile Antenna Mounts SWR/Power Meters Adapters Coaxial Cable Two Way Accessories Antenna Accessories DC Power Supplies Coax Cable Accessories Connectors Aviation Radios Repeater Systems Towers &...theantennafarm.com
Trunk mount is fine.
The trunk lid will act as the ground plane. Ideally you want the mount right in the center. You don't want it too close to the back window, and you want in in from the back edge. Pay close attention to where the antenna will hit when you open the trunk. If you need to move it back a bit, that's OK.
You mount the NMO mount to the car. NMO mounts are, by far, the most common mobile antenna mount out there. Once you have the NMO mount installed, you can easily swap out antennas. Won't matter what brand, as long as it's an NMO mount on the car and an NMO mount on the antenna, you are good to go.
The antenna will thread down on the NMO mount and make the connection. They also seal very well, so you'll have that on your side. Do periodically remove the antenna and clean underneath.
The coaxial cable gets routed up to your radio and connected there.
Should be a pretty noticeable difference having an external antenna compared to using and hand held inside.
Help Choosing An Antenna (SDS-100 - Vehicle)
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Ok, so finally, if I understand correctly,
1. You get the Antenna (NMO150 in this case which has NMO compatibility)
2. Measure, gauge, etc, do the setup properly
3. Drill the hole (center of trunk, make sure to note where it touches window when lifted and adjust)
4. Use one of these (or any) NMO mounts (Male BNC in this case) [linked this one because it's the one I found that I think I'd like to get if I understand it correctly], install that NMO mount through the hole
5. Affix the antenna to just-installed mount
6. Wire the cable through the car
7. Connect it to the radio and good to go
Hopefully I understood that right. If so, I believe all I need to do left is touch up/learn actual procedures/tape usage/measuring/drilling/etc. I could get it done for me I suppose, but I think it would be good to still have knowledge of it at least.
1. You get the Antenna (NMO150 in this case which has NMO compatibility)
2. Measure, gauge, etc, do the setup properly
3. Drill the hole (center of trunk, make sure to note where it touches window when lifted and adjust)
4. Use one of these (or any) NMO mounts (Male BNC in this case) [linked this one because it's the one I found that I think I'd like to get if I understand it correctly], install that NMO mount through the hole
5. Affix the antenna to just-installed mount
6. Wire the cable through the car
7. Connect it to the radio and good to go
Hopefully I understood that right. If so, I believe all I need to do left is touch up/learn actual procedures/tape usage/measuring/drilling/etc. I could get it done for me I suppose, but I think it would be good to still have knowledge of it at least.
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mmckenna
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Right. NMO's are standard. In the Larsen product line, the NMO mounts will work with the NMO-prefix antennas. Different brand antennas that are NMO will work with other mounts. That'll give you a lot of flexibility if your needs change down the road.
Use 2" wide masking tape. Put down a strip a couple of widths wide and a foot or so long. That gives you a good working area. Make marks where you want to drill. Make sure you know what is on the other side. Don't drill through stiffening braces.
A note on hole saws...
There are NMO hole saws that are specifically designed for installing these mounts. They are pricy, but they do a nice job. If you plan on doing this frequently, they are worth the investment. They have a design that limits the depth so you don't accidentally drill through a headliner.
There are also perfectly acceptable 3/4" hole saws sold at hardware stores that will do what you need for a lot less money. They don't have the depth limiting design, so you need to be careful. But since this is going on a trunk lid, you don't need to worry about that.
Expensive NMO hole saw that does a great job:
Laird TE Connectivity HS34 3/4" NMO X-ACT Hole Saw to 1/8" Depth Safe Cutting
3/4" Hole Saw. X-ACT hole saw cuts a 3/4" hole x Depth 1/8"
theantennafarm.com
Milwaukee 3/4 in. SHOCKWAVE IMPACT DUTY Hole Saw 49-56-9805 - The Home Depot
Designed with a robust 1/4 in. quick change hex shank, Milwaukee Shockwave Impact Duty Thin Wall Hole Saws give professionals a hole making solution to use with impact drivers. Utilizing a thin wall, 8 TPI design, Thin Wall Hole Saws deliver a burr-free cut up to 40% faster than standard...
www.homedepot.com
Go slow when you drill. Use light downward pressure on the drill and let the hole saw teeth do the work. You don't want to use too much pressure and build up heat.
You don't need the HF style mount for what you are doing, but it certainly won't hurt, and it's only a few bucks more. You can get the NMOK mounts with the BNC connector on the end for a few bucks less.
But, before you install that, make sure you carefully clean up all the drilling chips. Vacuum those up, use a magnet, wash the car, just make sure you get them all cleaned up.
When you install the mount, make sure the O-ring gets installed correctly. Some mount kits come with a little tube of silicone grease that helps keep the O-ring in place, and help keep it slippery so it doesn't bunch up and get damaged when you tighten the mount.
The instructions will cover all that.
You'll need a small pair of needle nose pliers to hold the center section as you tighten the outer ring. You can buy fancy wrenches, but a small set of needle nose pliers works just fine. A large adjustable wrench will work fine on the outer ring if you don't have a open end wrench large enough. Tighten it down snug, but don't make it so tight that it deforms the metal. You can always tighten it later.
The antenna base will have a space for an O-ring or a separate gasket. Use the gasket that comes with the Larsen antennas, it'll keep moisture out and protect the surface of the trunk.
Careful routing is key. Avoid sharp edges, and try not to run under the carpet in a place where it'll get stepped on.
Keep it low to avoid side curtain air bags. Try to avoid other vehicle wiring if you can.
Yep, that's the fun part. I suspect you'll notice an improvement in performance right away.
Periodically remove the antenna and clean under it. The gaskets work well, but keeping the mount clean and making sure a bit of moisture didn't get in is important. A bit of preventative maintenance goes a long way. I've got 30+ year old Larsen antennas that still work just like new.
It's not hard. Just take your time. Measure twice cut once (rather than the "I cut it 3 times and it's STILL too short….)
Beware of Youtube when it comes to NMO mount installs. There are a lot of truly horrible videos on their that give really bad advice. Avoid the videos from ham radio operators if it seems fishy. Try to find videos direct from the manufacturers.
Photos when you are all done are much appreciated, as it helps others down the road to see how it's done. It also reinforces the idea that permanent installations are a good option.
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You caught me right before I was going to bed. Sounds like you have a good grasp on this.
If you look at the picture of the Larson tri band base it has a polo stick type connector when you screw it on it contracts and makes contact with the center of the disc applying pressure for good contact. If you want when you go to the car wash you can always remove the antenna and be sure to get a cap to put over the disc that will be left on your trunk.
It's easy to fish the coax to the radio putting it under floor mats.
You do have the option of hiring somebody there are probably companies in your area that will install the nmo mount for you. They usually serve volunteer fireman and police installing emergency lights Etc.
Nice to see you getting a grasp on this.
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mmckenna
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Not an expert. I've just made all the mistakes for you already.
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Yeah and that makes you an expert😆.
Saying "I appreciate it" is like an understatement at this point lol. Thank you both so much for the help and detailed responses. Thanks to the help, I think I understand the basics in at least a basic way as well as I don't mind a bit more for the HF style. So in the end, I'll be getting,
- Larsen NMO150/450/758
- Larsen NMOKHFUD (BNC Male Installed Connector)
I use a flat HD antenna mounted behind my rear seat (truck). I did test between it and my dual band antenna mounted on my vehicle. The HD worked better. Some of the are dipoles and others are slot antennas. Mine was $5 at Best Buy. I need adapters to get to the scanner. Try it out.
mmckenna
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Yeah, they are a better design, and while not worth the extra cost for most users, they are a good option in some applications.
You'll have a nice set up when this is all done. The permanent installs with commercial quality antennas always looks better in my opinion. I've been putting permanent NMO mounts on all my vehicles for a very long time, and never once regretted it.
Only thing left on my end is basically figuring out installation choice. Which is, I have a list of the tools I'd need, and basic understanding of the process. Only downside is 1. Cost of tools which probably won't be used more than once in my case. And 2. Risk of mistakes on a permanent installation yikes. In this case I feel that I'd be most comfortable with professional installation, however, having a very difficult time finding who or where that might be. I live in a heavy military/AFB/Police district. There are so many PDs alone. Not counting like 1-200 work trucks on the AFB with mounted antennas. So I've been trying to figure out who does installs and perhaps try and find that business, (probably gonna be a dead end if it's military exclusively on site/base, which it sadly probably is). Not a lot of progress so far I've called 9 surrounding businesses and they recommended a Sound/Stereo store. Hmmm not sure about that one. The guy there (at said stereo store) said they could probably do it but I'm not sure. I explained the tools needed and what everything is and where it would go and he said it could be done. Not saying they couldn't but honestly I'd rather find someone that deals with NMO/vehicle antenna on a more consistent basis. All they do normally is stereo/gps/dash radio. Could just be me being ignorant though and maybe it is a good option, not sure. I found a few threads where people have had access to a Motorola or 2 way Radio Store but I can't find any near me. Last option is Best Buy antenna installation technicians lol which I've seen a few people say they wouldn't trust them, and a few say they would, so not sure there either. Any advice is appreciated for searching, otherwise, I don't mind buying the tools/saw, setting it up myself, could always sell the tools after as well.
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mmckenna
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The Home Depot hole saw I linked to is the least expensive solution that will work for you, but it is an investment that probably won't get used again.
Do not -ever- use a stereo shop. They may be able to do it, but I've fixed far too many stereo shop installs where someone thought they could save some money by going that route. I have not run across a stereo/alarm shop install that hasn't had some major issue, ever.
Find a two way radio shop. They will have the right tools. It may cost a bit more, but they'll do the job properly. They know how to install the NMO mounts properly. Get them to route the cable as they'll know the tricks. Skip the mount with the preinstalled BNC connector, as they'll likely cut it off. Much easier to install cable without the connector in the way. You could also have them supply the mount, as they will have them in stock and probably buy in bulk at a much cheaper cost than you can.
When the cable is all laid in, they can cut the cable to the right length and install a new connector for you. Less cable means less loss.
They'll also have the right test equipment for checking the install after completion.
Having a shop do it is a good investment, especially if you have not done it before, don't have the right tools, or have any anxiety about popping a hole in the car. They will do a good job.
Do not -ever- use a stereo shop. They may be able to do it, but I've fixed far too many stereo shop installs where someone thought they could save some money by going that route. I have not run across a stereo/alarm shop install that hasn't had some major issue, ever.
Find a two way radio shop. They will have the right tools. It may cost a bit more, but they'll do the job properly. They know how to install the NMO mounts properly. Get them to route the cable as they'll know the tricks. Skip the mount with the preinstalled BNC connector, as they'll likely cut it off. Much easier to install cable without the connector in the way. You could also have them supply the mount, as they will have them in stock and probably buy in bulk at a much cheaper cost than you can.
When the cable is all laid in, they can cut the cable to the right length and install a new connector for you. Less cable means less loss.
They'll also have the right test equipment for checking the install after completion.
Having a shop do it is a good investment, especially if you have not done it before, don't have the right tools, or have any anxiety about popping a hole in the car. They will do a good job.
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+1 on what mmckenna said about stereo shops, I just got a chance to post and I was going to come on and say don't go near a stereo shop, he beat me to it, you know more about this than they do at this point, many of them can't even install a stereo properly.
There's got to be a professional radio installer near you. I have a shop nearby my area that caters to volunteer fireman and fire police. They install NMO antennas,
emergency lights and such.
What county and state are you in again?, what are some surrounding counties?
There's got to be a professional radio installer near you. I have a shop nearby my area that caters to volunteer fireman and fire police. They install NMO antennas,
emergency lights and such.
What county and state are you in again?, what are some surrounding counties?
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
100% this. All this. I could tell you stories about stereo/alarm shop installs…..
Right, there's enough of us here that we may know of a local shop that can assist.
State: Florida
County: Okaloosa
I actually got in touch with someone from Motorola Two-Way Radio Dealer in Florida - EMCI Wireless (30-40m from me), I explained the parts and use-case and everything and they said they deal with NMO vehicle mounts and wouldn't have a problem. However, they said they'd have to get pricing to see if they do consumer vehicles vs fleet/department. Just like person A walking in for a single installation versus person B who represents xPD and wanted 50 of them is basically how it sounded to me. So they took info and I'm waiting on a callback.
County: Okaloosa
I actually got in touch with someone from Motorola Two-Way Radio Dealer in Florida - EMCI Wireless (30-40m from me), I explained the parts and use-case and everything and they said they deal with NMO vehicle mounts and wouldn't have a problem. However, they said they'd have to get pricing to see if they do consumer vehicles vs fleet/department. Just like person A walking in for a single installation versus person B who represents xPD and wanted 50 of them is basically how it sounded to me. So they took info and I'm waiting on a callback.
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This is what you want, this is 10 minutes from my house and although I never had them install anything as I always did it myself they have been around for decades and I pop in and say hello from time to time. It's amazing the spare parts they have in a box somewhere that I'm looking for.
They sell and install professional two-way radios for businesses like oil companies, Heating companies, bus companies, taxi cabs.
This is what you want that's not too long of a drive from you and I'm sure you can find it.
Wish I lived there lol, they only have that one location it seems. I found a lot more just like you guys said about the Two-Way Radio shops. They're mostly located in bigger cities around me like 30-40m out, which I honestly have no problem getting to. So if EMCI doesn't work out, I'll just try the next one and so on.
Ah, edit: EMCI just got back. Good to go with installation, just need to schedule a time next week or so. Antenna arrives Su/Mo ish so I'm waiting until I have the parts in hand of course.
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If you want to use a magnetic scanner antenna without harming your paint, there is really only one choice, Tram. The NMO base can take any NMO antenna you want.
Tram is the only magnetic antenna that utilizes a 5-inch rubber boot. Trust me, despite the naysayers believe, this one works like a charm. The roof and trunk are unblemished.
I also use the Tram 3500 for my CB. It also has a 5-inch booted magnetic mount: Amazon.com: 1267R-BNC 5 1/2" Black NMO Magnet Mount with Rubber Boot and BNC Connector : Electronics
My personal choice is a Larsen tri-band NMO mobile antenna. I prefer this model since it uses 58U coax. I am solder-challenged. Hence, I can use a twist-on BNC connector. 58AU uses a braided center conductor.
Tram is the only magnetic antenna that utilizes a 5-inch rubber boot. Trust me, despite the naysayers believe, this one works like a charm. The roof and trunk are unblemished.
I also use the Tram 3500 for my CB. It also has a 5-inch booted magnetic mount: Amazon.com: 1267R-BNC 5 1/2" Black NMO Magnet Mount with Rubber Boot and BNC Connector : Electronics
My personal choice is a Larsen tri-band NMO mobile antenna. I prefer this model since it uses 58U coax. I am solder-challenged. Hence, I can use a twist-on BNC connector. 58AU uses a braided center conductor.
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lu81fitter
Member
I can say, without a doubt, that any information you get from mmckenna is spot on. I've learned so much from him and his posts here. And I'll take the time to thank him for that now.
As far as "drilling the hole", I was using mag mounts for over 10 years and thought it was just fine. After taking his advice and drilling in my first antenna, I was really satisfied with it. Not only did it look professional (not having cables running across and through doors or trunk lids) it really performed better. If I bought a 70k+ truck tomorrow and put my scanner in it, I'd drill a hole in the roof without even thinking about it. Like others have said here, your antenna is more important than the radio. I also have the Larsen tri-band and it works well. Not familiar with the EM Wave. But if it's getting good reviews from mmckenna, don't doubt it.
Drill the hole and get the Larsen or EM Wave. You won't be disappointed.
As far as "drilling the hole", I was using mag mounts for over 10 years and thought it was just fine. After taking his advice and drilling in my first antenna, I was really satisfied with it. Not only did it look professional (not having cables running across and through doors or trunk lids) it really performed better. If I bought a 70k+ truck tomorrow and put my scanner in it, I'd drill a hole in the roof without even thinking about it. Like others have said here, your antenna is more important than the radio. I also have the Larsen tri-band and it works well. Not familiar with the EM Wave. But if it's getting good reviews from mmckenna, don't doubt it.
Drill the hole and get the Larsen or EM Wave. You won't be disappointed.
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