Help locating broadband RFI source in North Houston

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iloverf

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If there's anyone (those skilled in the art of hunting RFI sources, Amateur Ops, etc.) nearby that would be willing to assist me to locate the source of some terrible broadband RFI that's been plaguing me at my QTH for over a year, I'd love the help. I'm located in The Woodlands area (North of Houston) and am interested in HF communications, but this broadbanded RFI wipes out large swaths of the HF spectrum at my location.

I have an AirSpy HF+ Discovery SDR receiver and another HF transceiver with waterfall/spectrum display, etc. I have pictures/screenshots of what the offending trash/RFI looks like, what frequencies it's seen on, etc. It's best described as a repeating pattern type signal, my primary antenna at the moment is a 10 meter vertical which is resonate from approximately 26-30mhz - so it's obviously very strong within this frequency range but sometimes you can even see the repeating pattern RFI on lower bands on the same antenna.

When observing the signal(s) on the spectrum scope/waterfall they appear to be repeating/identically spaced oscillating/spiraling signals which grow and shrink in size and drift up and down in frequency slightly. I haven't actually figured out a way to record the signals over a broad range of frequencies over a long period (24-72 hours) to look for patterns that may be clues as to the source. I read a blog where someone did this with a number of programs (one of them being HDSDR I think) but it looked fairly complicated.

I enlisted the help of a HAM friendly RFI hunter for a local power company and he came out and sniffed around with his equipment and told me it's not the power company equipment in my neighborhood and that it was more than likely coming from a house nearby. He even showed me a house a few doors down that was spewing objectionable levels of RF, but that was about where his help ended (understandably). The gentleman was using a Radar Engineers Model 243 RFI locator. A quick google shows this device is mostly intended to locate "spark gap" type RFI - why would the house 3 doors down be spewing super high levels of RFI detected by this device? I knocked on the door of this home and the homeowner was less than friendly and seemingly uninterested in assisting me to locate the source (suggested we flip his main breaker while I watched my SDR receiver to confirm his house is the source) and he didn't seem really interested in that.

I've killed the main breaker to my own house and had my direct neighbors do the same, the noise is definitely not coming from my home or my direct neighbors. If I was certain my noise was coming from the house 3 doors down, I'd be more confident in getting more aggressive with asking for his help otherwise I'll pursue other avenues (FCC, ARRL, ?) but at the moment I'm unsure how to proceed. The noise must go...

I'm a general class op looking to upgrade to Extra but I've got to get this problem fixed before I feel like proceeding. Any tips would be greatly appreciated, I'm at my wits end with this as it pretty much ruins any chance of enjoying HF from my house.

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RFI-EMI-GUY

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Be careful. Grow Lights of the type used by illegal marijauna growers can be "spewing objectionable levels of RF". If that is the case you dont want to be knocking on doors.
 

n5wta

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I had the exact same noise across my entire radio. Part of it was my fridge (LG), the other part is my ground rod that I am still trying to figure out. If I disconnect, and run my radio directly to the antenna, it goes away.
 

kb5udf

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Bear in mind turning off the A/c mains and/or breaker may not kill all devices in a home. Some devices, such as telcom services may have battery backups and remain powered up. For example around here you might have home fiber internet and/or telephone/internet/cable that remains up.
 

n5wta

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What KB5UDF is describing is also one of the offenders of noise in my house. I had to put a very expensive line filter in front of it to stop it from radiating in the house. My Verizon fiber ONT outside is powered by a battery backup unit inside the house. That took me a while to figure out as well. Most of them have a case that you can take the cover off of and disable the battery on when you have the power off.
 

iloverf

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If all else fails you could try a noise eliminator with a sense antenna that puts the interfering signal out of phase with with the main antenna

Thanks for the reply. I'm aware of the option but in my experience, these devices tend to distort the signal you're looking to receive to a degree as well (much like a noise blanker or DSP noise reduction). I guess the best way would be to have a dual receive Flex or Anan SDR and use "diversity" to knock it out (I realize similar techniques, but some are better than others).
 

iloverf

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Be careful. Grow Lights of the type used by illegal marijauna growers can be "spewing objectionable levels of RF". If that is the case you dont want to be knocking on doors.

Thanks for the reply. This has definitely crossed my mind. I was kind of hoping this is what was going on and between the sight of the energy company employee walking through his yard with RFI locating equipment + me knocking on his door would have made the RFI suddenly disappear in hours or days after - but nope.
 

iloverf

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I had the exact same noise across my entire radio. Part of it was my fridge (LG), the other part is my ground rod that I am still trying to figure out. If I disconnect, and run my radio directly to the antenna, it goes away.

Interesting. I at least know it's not my fridge, or my immediate neighbor's fridges (or most anything else in our homes) as we've turned the mains off completely for a few minutes.
 

iloverf

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Bear in mind turning off the A/c mains and/or breaker may not kill all devices in a home. Some devices, such as telcom services may have battery backups and remain powered up. For example around here you might have home fiber internet and/or telephone/internet/cable that remains up.

Thanks for the reply. You are certainly right that some devices (although relatively rare) may remain powered on via internal battery - but isn't it usually the cheaply made/poorly filtered switch mode power supply/charger that would be generating the RF with most devices?

ATT U-verse / Comcast are the only Internet/Cable TV options in my small neighborhood and I know that the equipment they use are powered by wall wart type power supplies - so they'd be off for sure when the mains were flipped. One of my neighbors does have a battery backup/UPS for computer equipment though - so that may take some further investigation at some point.

The power employee who was doing the RFI hunting said the only house on the street emitting high levels of RF was the house 3 doors down. He showed me the screen on his RFI locating tool/tablet and how when he moved the directional antenna from pointing directly at that house (we were standing at the end of their driveway in the street) slightly to the left or right the signal disappeared. One of the guy's helpers even joked "they're probably growing"
 
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KevinC

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Thanks for the reply. You are certainly right. ATT U-verse / Comcast are the only Internet/Cable TV options in my small neighborhood and I know that the equipment they use are powered by wall wart type power supplies - so they'd be off for sure when the mains were flipped. One of my neighbors does have a battery backup/UPS for computer equipment though - so that may take some further investigation at some point.

The power employee who was doing the RFI hunting said the only house on the street emitting high levels of RF was the house 3 doors down. He showed me the screen on his RFI locating tool/tablet and how when he moved the directional antenna from pointing directly at that house (we were standing at the end of their driveway in the street) slightly to the left or right the signal disappeared. One of the guy's helpers even joked "they're probably growing"

I'm guessing Jeff came out?

Anyway, does that house have lots of cameras outside?
 

iloverf

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I'm guessing Jeff came out?

Anyway, does that house have lots of cameras outside?

Yes, Jeff came out with some helpers and was super nice.

I didn't spot any cameras when I walked up to the house to knock on the door and introduce myself/explain the situation. I did find it odd that the guy was very agitated and extremely dismissive/uninterested in helping, even after I offered my own time/money resources to help solve the problem should we find it was something on his property generating the RFI (LED bulb, dimmer, lamp, etc. Put some filters on his tv/fridge, etc.)

I gave him my phone # and told him when he has a few minutes, let's try flipping his breaker while I check my SDR receiver, but it's been a few weeks now and based on his general demeanor and attitude don't really expect to hear from him.
 

KevinC

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Yes, Jeff came out with some helpers and was super nice.

I didn't spot any cameras when I walked up to the house to knock on the door and introduce myself/explain the situation. I did find it odd that the guy was very agitated and extremely dismissive/uninterested in helping, even after I offered my own time/money resources to help solve the problem should we find it was something on his property generating the RFI (LED bulb, dimmer, lamp, etc. Put some filters on his tv/fridge, etc.)

I gave him my phone # and told him when he has a few minutes, let's try flipping his breaker while I check my SDR receiver, but it's been a few weeks now and based on his general demeanor and attitude don't really expect to hear from him.

I've known Jeff for many years and he is truly is super nice.

Does the noise extend above the HF range?
 

iloverf

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Y
I've known Jeff for many years and he is truly is super nice.

Does the noise extend above the HF range?

It does...

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Funny you ask that, Jeff found the strongest signal coming from the home in question on 148.x frequency (if I'm interpreting what's on his device's screen correctly) and I'm currently seeing a strong signal on 148.350.

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KevinC

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iloverf

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I'm loading up the golf cart with laptop, SDR Uno & 2 meter mobile antenna. Going to see if that signal is coming from the house in question (I don't have a directional antenna, but it should get stronger as I get in front of that house). Maybe that's the fundamental frequency and I'm just getting repeating harmonics across the rest of the spectrum? This signal seems to spiral/zigzag and move slightly up/down in frequency like the repeating pattern signals I'm getting on HF...
 

iloverf

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Well that was fun.... - FYI Golf Cart speed controller absolutely wrecks most of the RF spectrum when activated, so while it was a nice stable platform for laptop, antennas, cables, sdr, etc. Not useful while in motion... I was able to duplicate the strong signal Jeff found while parked in front of the house though. Back to the drawing board...
 

RFI-EMI-GUY

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Something to keep in mind with SDR. If you are connecting a SDR to a large antenna and have no band pass filtering, the SDR is likely to be overloaded and produce all sorts of aliasing, Intermodulation, spurious signals that are not real. Better to use a superhet HF receiver that has a preselector for your testing.
 

iloverf

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Something to keep in mind with SDR. If you are connecting a SDR to a large antenna and have no band pass filtering, the SDR is likely to be overloaded and produce all sorts of aliasing, Intermodulation, spurious signals that are not real. Better to use a superhet HF receiver that has a preselector for your testing.

Definitely aware of an SDR dongle's tendency to overload and show what looks like a repeating signal/RFI across a chunk of spectrum (Like my AirSpy was doing with my golf cart's speed controller on my RFI patrol cruise around the neighborhood). I would have brought the Kenwood TS-890S Superhet but it's 34lbs and kinda $$$. :)
 

a417

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Bear in mind turning off the A/c mains and/or breaker may not kill all devices in a home. Some devices, such as telcom services may have battery backups and remain powered up. For example around here you might have home fiber internet and/or telephone/internet/cable that remains up.
Yes, but it will kill the poorly shielded switch mode power supplies they have crammed into them. I would expect a device running on battery to be much more well behaved than something crammed with the cheapest chinesium parts that will work.
 
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