HF Amateur antennas

[LtDoc]

Ah, but they always seem to have one direction they favor. The trick is to put a rotor under them to turn that favorable side in the direction you want it... right?
- 'Doc

 

[k3cfc]

Ham radio has always been somewhat an interest for me and something I may look into in the future.

I am curious. Is there any half decent vertical antennas that can work the hf bands? If I get into ham radio my main interest would mostly be simply in the hf areas and not so much vhf/uhf unless mobile.

Reason I ask about vertical antennas is I'm limited for space and beams and dipoles arent really possible for me.

Here you can build your own. all parts bought from ebay. they work i have both of them. i also bought 14 fiberglass 5 ft sections poles that were used to hold up a tent in the military. I live just up the road from an army surplus store where i got these poles.

Emergency Amateur Radio Club - Hawaii - Homebrew Projects
I forgot to mention look at this video. this does not lie.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWkpQ785Pjo
Good luck

K3CFC

 

[k3cfc]

Ham radio has always been somewhat an interest for me and something I may look into in the future.

I am curious. Is there any half decent vertical antennas that can work the hf bands? If I get into ham radio my main interest would mostly be simply in the hf areas and not so much vhf/uhf unless mobile.

Reason I ask about vertical antennas is I'm limited for space and beams and dipoles arent really possible for me.

Check your private message.

 

[dksac2]

There is a tendency among many to attempt to put up an antenna that does everything.

May I humbly suggest you get an antenna that does one band well. Learn about how that band performs. Right now, the ten meter band is a good bet for the next couple of years at least. When it opens you can work the world with just a couple watts.

Ten meters is a good band for several reasons. If you like FM repeaters, they are on the high side of the band. There are satellite downlinks on this band. There are numerous beacons. And there are all kinds of interesting propagation modes.

It will keep you very curious and busy at all hours of the day and night (no joke, on sunspot cycle 21 I used to talk locally during the night hours and get interrupted by people on the other side of the earth in VK land...

I think you might enjoy the band, for its fascinating propagation, if nothing else. Oh, and antenna efficiency with this shorter wavelength isn't bad...

I could not agree more. I have 5 antennas up, from the Gap vertical, to a Multi band V to a couple flat top dipoles.

Problem is, this person just had room for one vertical. Being as the Gap is vertical dipole, it does not need a bunch of horizontals at the base, just the four 25' one's for the 40 meter band. If a vertical is all the person can do, I don't know of a verticl that will work better. It would be nice if they could get a 10 meter 2 element beam up, about as small a a 10 meter beam can get. I've been told the Gap is pretty darn good on 20 & 40, not sure about 10 meters yet.
The regular verticals are the one's that need at least 40 horizontal radials to work their best, much depending on the ground.

My Best, John

 

[warnberg]

Your going to get loads of advice here, this antenna is better then that one, etc,etc... the first question should be, what are you expecting your antenna to do? and secondly how much room do you have? what band or bands are you planning to work? I have found there is truly not one antenna that will let you work 160 meters as well as 6 meters and everything in between, however, there are loads of options out there from home brews to commercial products all will claim this or that. Research research research, check out the reviews on eham.net and then experiment.

Personally I have had up and tested an end feed random length wire antenna, worked/works well... I chose to change the wire out to 58 feet and have worked Australia with it. My next test will be a vertical, 29 foot tall vertical. If your interested in what happens and what my tests show, I will be keeping details on my qrz.com page.. just look me up if interested..


KK4QOE

 

[AgentCOPP1]

OP, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to tack on my own question here for just a little bit instead of making a new thread.

This is just a quick question, but if I get a 40 meter dipole, can I use that on 80 and 20 meters as well due to harmonics?

 

[warnberg]

OP, if you wouldn't mind, I'd like to tack on my own question here for just a little bit instead of making a new thread.

This is just a quick question, but if I get a 40 meter dipole, can I use that on 80 and 20 meters as well due to harmonics?

That would depend on the antenna and how it was manufactured.. is it possible? yes, but and there is always that but..it depends sorry I couldn't answer better, but some antenna's will tune multiple bands without issue, some won't..

 

[AK9R]

This is just a quick question, but if I get a 40 meter dipole, can I use that on 80 and 20 meters as well due to harmonics?

Google "W3DZZ trap dipole". Supposedly works on 80, 40, 20, 15, and 10 meters.

http://www.qsl.net/gm0onx/GM0ONX trap dipole.pdf

W2AU/W2VS Antenna Kit - unadilla

I have the parts on order and will be giving it a try soon.

 

[AgentCOPP1]

Google "W3DZZ trap dipole". Supposedly works on 80, 40, 20, 15, and 10 meters.

http://www.qsl.net/gm0onx/GM0ONX trap dipole.pdf

W2AU/W2VS Antenna Kit - unadilla

I have the parts on order and will be giving it a try soon.

Yeah, I've seen those antennas and I've considered them. I think that might be my best option, but I'm not very skilled at building those sorts of things so throwing plans for them won't do me much good haha. Hopefully I can get better with those (and I most likely will, as I progress with ham radio), but I'm thinking that I just need to buy a pre-tuned trap antenna.

 

[Eickerman]

Here is a simple multiband antenna that does not require any traps. You can even leave off the 20 meter legs if you have an antenna tuner.

It takes about 230 ft of wire (insulated or uninsulated - any gauge), 1 center insulator (purchased or made), 6 end insulators (purchased or made), some 50 ohm coax, a PL259 connector, and some lanyard rope (clothesline rope with wire for strength works good), and a pole with pulley at the top to pull it up in the air.

Lengths are approximate and should be tuned for minimum SWR if you use it to transmit. There is little interaction between the bands. The 80 Meter legs also work on 10 meters, and the 40 Meter legs also work on 15 Meters.

I have this without the 20 meter legs, pulled up in the air to the eaves of my 2-story home (only 20 ft high at the apex). The 80 meter legs make an abrupt turn at about 40 feet and run toward each other along my back fence.

You spread out the legs the best you can, but don't worry about angles too much.

Here is some additional information http://www.qso.com/westsat/Maypole/intro.html and http://www.qso.com/westsat/Maypole/ but don't sweat construction details. You can make it just about any way you want and it will work.

Curtis Eickerman

 

[warnberg]

FYI... I have worked Australia with an end feed random length wire antenna... 53 feet in length, slopper configuration with the feed end at 3 feet off the ground slopped up to 30 feet.. be aware this type of antenna is notorious for RF in the shack so be sure to use at least 50' of low loss cable and some ferrite chokes or a line isolator to keep RF out of the shack

 

[k9rzz]

Mobile antennas work too. I've seen photos of guys who mounted mobile whips on porch railings to work HF.

 

[Eickerman]

This is just a quick question, but if I get a 40 meter dipole, can I use that on 80 and 20 meters as well due to harmonics?

Assuming you are talking about a simple coax fed dipole, the short answer would be no.

The longer answer is that a 40 meter 1/2 wavelength antenna will present a high VSWR on both 80 meters and 20 meters precisely because of the harmonic relation ship in both cases (2-to-1). As a result you will have a high level of power loss in the coax feedline and your radio will find the impedance it is seeing to be unacceptable.

Strangely enough an antenna resonant at the upper end of 75 Meters (near 4 MHz) can be used on the lower end of 10 meters because you are getting close to an odd harmonic relationship (7-to-1).

In the same way a 40 meter antenna can be used on 15 meters because of this same kind of odd harmonic relationship (3-to-1).

Almost any length of line can be used if you resort to "open wire" feedline and an antenna tuner. This is because you can have a very high VSWR situation on the feedline with low losses, and you use the antenna tuner to transform the unusually high impendances to something the radio finds acceptable.

Curtis Eickerman

 

[k3cfc]

Mobile antennas work too. I've seen photos of guys who mounted mobile whips on porch railings to work HF.

This all well and good but what about R.F exposure limits. the best place to be is under your antenna.

K3CFC

 

[Eickerman]

This all well and good but what about R.F exposure limits. the best place to be is under your antenna.

Well, under a vertical, but the same can't be said of a Dipole or Inverted V. Unfortunately this leads to a slightly off-topic comment.

A lot of local ordinances, deed restrictions, and Home Owner Association rules lead to situations where people who are licensed to use radio transmitters (like us), will find themselves putting their antennas in relatively close proximity to people when exactly the opposite would be the safest thing to do (getting them higher in the air and farther away from people).

Curtis Eickerman

 

[AgentCOPP1]

This all well and good but what about R.F exposure limits. the best place to be is under your antenna.

K3CFC

My antenna is about 80 feet away from me, on the same plane as my house. I haven't checked if I'm going over the legal exposure limit, but with 100 watts on SSB, I hardly believe I am.

 

[Eickerman]

My antenna is about 80 feet away from me, on the same plane as my house. I haven't checked if I'm going over the legal exposure limit, but with 100 watts on SSB, I hardly believe I am.

Technically the exposure limit calculations apply at 100 watts PEP or less for bands 15, 12, and 10 meters. I agree that at 80 feet it is highly unlikely to be an issue.

FCC RF-Exposure Regulations -- the Station Evaluation

By the way, I checked and at 80 feet there is no problem even with 100 w average power reaching the antenna, like full carrier CW with no coax loss and a dipole at 28 MHz (your power will be lower). At 10 feet there would potentially be a problem under the above conditions (which goes to my earlier comment about getting an antenna away from people).

Curtis Eickerman

 

[k3cfc]

Well, under a vertical, but the same can't be said of a Dipole or Inverted V. Unfortunately this leads to a slightly off-topic comment.

A lot of local ordinances, deed restrictions, and Home Owner Association rules lead to situations where people who are licensed to use radio transmitters (like us), will find themselves putting their antennas in relatively close proximity to people when exactly the opposite would be the safest thing to do (getting them higher in the air and farther away from people).

Curtis Eickerman

Just answered a post from k9rzz off topic or not!

 

[dksac2]

I got the Challenger antenna up, the one made by Gap and it works fantastic within the limits of a multi band vertical. All multi band verticals have limits.
I also put up an Alpha Delta EE 4 band antenna in an inverted "V" that came with the used radio I bought.

My findings are this, The Gap is a KILLER on 20 and 40 meters, works on 80, but is not the best. The inverted "V" is less on 20 meters and about 1 "S" unit higher on 15 meters.
The Gap antennas are all vertical dipoles, that is why you don't need the radials except for the 3 that go with the 40 meter band.
I have made some great DX contacts and broke into some pretty good pile up's with just 100 watts. For a decent price, it's a great small space set up. The 4 band antenna can be self made for next to nothing and in the V formation, takes up very little room.

I also just bought a Gap Voyager DX because I want to work 80 meters and a decent portion of the 160 meter band. It's not the best on 160 or 20 meters, but on all bands inbetween, it's a great antenna, same deal, 3 radial wires, but for the 80 meter band. Reports on E Ham have some making some good contacts on 160.

This really is a set up to consider since a vertical will give a much lower take of angle than a dipole for more DX range and being dipoles themselves, they are far quieter than regular verticals. The Voyager is now almost $500.00 with shipping, but ARS has a sale, $349.95 shipped, you can't beat it for that price.

All multi band verticals have some bands that don't work all that great, but they also have bands that work great DX. It's not a Yagi on a 70' tower, but it sure has been doing the job for me. I'm one happy camper.
Take a look at the reviews on E Ham, they are pretty darn good. A few don't like them, but I cannot see how unless they didn't assemble them right or have them in a bad place or poor connection.

I did find that the higher bands above 20 meters were lacking, but who has just one antenna today. There is no way one antenna will do everything, you need several if you want to cover the bands and space, lack of a tower and no tree's makes one have to find the best that will work within the limitations one has at their QTH.

73's John

 

[K3JOE]

I have the Radio Works Carolina Windom 80 Compact antenna in my back yard in an inverted V. This antenna works 80-6 meters with a tuner with its best performance on 80m, 40m, and 20m. I have tried G5RV, Butternut HV-6, and Hustler antennas but the Carolina Windom works the best.