HF antenna questions

[zguy1243]

Im looking to upgrade my HF antenna in the next week or so. For the last few years I have played with random length wires in the horizontal position and some inverted V's. I have used some baluns but nothing of high quality. I listen most of the time from 3 megs to 14 megs. Those of you that are big into HF monitoring may be able to tell me what would be a really good antenna. Somthing of high quality. Most of the stuff I listen to is utility type stuff, military, atc, ect. Any help would be appreciated greatly. I am using a Icom R75 and a Icom R72 receiver.

Jody
KG4FVG

 

[ka3jjz]

Good receivers need good antennas, no doubt about it. Be more specific about your situation - indoor vs. outdoor? How much room do you have? Any nice trees where you can string antennas?

In addition, our Wiki has numerous links on antennas - LOTS of them. I would use them as a point of research.

For example, if you need something of moderate size, and performs very well, the PAR end fed is an excellant choice. I've heard nothing - and I mean nothing - bad about this outfit, run by Dale Parfitt (yes, he's a fellow ham, but that's not swaying my recommendation). He's even been known to actually call a customer (or at least email them) to give them suggestions about mounting and installation. Try THAT with any manufacturer today. Highly recommended.

However, there's absolutely nothing wrong at all with homebrew designs - you need to decide which one would work well for you in your environment, which is almost always something of a personal decision as much as a performance one. You will not damage your receivers in any way if you put something up that doesn't work well - just your wallet, hi.

73s Mike

73s Mike

 

[mfuller1950]

If you are looking for something for 40 or 80 meters nothing works better than a 1/2 wave dipole cut to a resonant frequency. If you don't have room for a tower and beam still a good dipole cut to a resonant frequency and the higher the better above ground. The antenna can be in either the flat top or inverted vee configuration.

Hope this helps

Fuller - K5QO

 

[AxelsHumanDad]

For example, if you need something of moderate size, and performs very well, the PAR end fed is an excellant choice. I've heard nothing - and I mean nothing - bad about this outfit, run by Dale Parfitt (yes, he's a fellow ham, but that's not swaying my recommendation). He's even been known to actually call a customer (or at least email them) to give them suggestions about mounting and installation. Try THAT with any manufacturer today. Highly recommended.

Dale's EndFed SWL rocks!
I have the EndFed SWL connected to a Kenwood R-5000, and the EndFed12 connected to a Kenwood TS-440S. both are super performers, and the customer support would be tough to beat.

 

[zguy1243]

Good receivers need good antennas, no doubt about it. Be more specific about your situation - indoor vs. outdoor? How much room do you have? Any nice trees where you can string antennas?

I have about a 1/2 acre lot and a few tall trees over to the western side of my lot. Space is not a problem. I have looked at the PAR end fed antenna, have heard alot good about it.

Jody

 

[ka3jjz]

Here I am a cave dweller; I'm getting green with envy over here.

Heck there are so many possibilities that it's hard to know which one to recommend over the other - the PAR would certainly be one choice, but how about something like a G5RV? That's a very well known antenna with good broadband characteristics. Another might be a T2FD - man, the possibilites just jump off the page with this one.... 73s and GL Mike

 

[k9rzz]

Im looking to upgrade my HF antenna in the next week or so. For the last few years I have played with random length wires in the horizontal position and some inverted V's. I have used some baluns but nothing of high quality. I listen most of the time from 3 megs to 14 megs. Those of you that are big into HF monitoring may be able to tell me what would be a really good antenna. Somthing of high quality. Most of the stuff I listen to is utility type stuff, military, atc, ect. Any help would be appreciated greatly. I am using a Icom R75 and a Icom R72 receiver.

Jody
KG4FVG

Cover the basics:

Do you want to hear close in (100 - 700 miles)? or distant (700 miles to ??).

For close in, a lower horizontal antenna, either broad band or cut for a specific band will work best.

For 700 + miles, you need a low angle of take off so the antenna needs to be high (50 ft or higher) or a vertical (with a very good ground).

If you can put up one of each, then you've got it covered, put them on a switch so you can go from A to B and back, use which ever is better. Even if you have to just about criss-cross the wires, go for it. One of the biggest DXers of all time, W6AM, had numerous antennas only spaced a few feet apart on numerous telephone poles, so if have to put them fairly close together, fine.

Make your station as versitile as possible, don't restrict yourself to just one antenna if you can help it.

Use the best feedline you can afford. Even "ladder line" works well and isn't that expensive.

Sounds like you know what you're doing, put some money into a few good switches and GO FOR IT!

John K9RZZ

 

[zguy1243]

Here is the two antennas im looking at. Anyone with experience with one of theses antennas please let me know you opinions

Alpha Delta DX Ultra
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/3377.html

Par Electronics EF-SWL
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/2205.html

 

[timmer]

Also try www.grove-ent.com. The grove "skywire" I believe it's called is supposed to be an excellent antenna. There are some active antennas that are good performers also.

 

[k9rzz]

Here is the two antennas im looking at. Anyone with experience with one of theses antennas please let me know you opinions

Alpha Delta DX Ultra
http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/sw_ant/3377.html

Here's my question: How does this $160 piece of wire differ from the $25 wire purchased from the hardware store and why does it suddenly become 'better' if both are put at the same height?

For $160 you could build a 30 foot vertical, put down 2,000 feet of radials, feed it with hardline, and then you'd REALLY have something!

Just my .02, I'm done.

John K9RZZ

 

[zguy1243]

You have a very good point. Wire is wire. My thinking with buying a "off the shelf" antenna is that I can just hang it and im done, I can trust someone else with building the antenna correctly for me. I spend most of my time on the VHF/UHF bands and have not experimented with HF that much. So in fear of error and lack of time I elected not to build my own antenna this time. I have built some in the past but were in my opinion not of much quailty, not more that a 60 foot wire with coax soldered to it. But if you could offer me some detailed plans on a better antenna that I could construct, such as the one that you are talking about I would love to listen. I have numerous stocks of harline, rolls of 75foot stranded copper wire, nylon rope and insulators. I guess I would still need some kind of balun too. I have not built any vertical HF antennas before, all of mine have been slopers and horizontal wires. Give me some specifics on a good DX 3-14 meg antenna and ill get down to the garage and get to building. Sounds like you really know HF antennas well, and thats what I need..

Here's my question: How does this $160 piece of wire differ from the $25 wire purchased from the hardware store and why does it suddenly become 'better' if both are put at the same height?

For $160 you could build a 30 foot vertical, put down 2,000 feet of radials, feed it with hardline, and then you'd REALLY have something!

Just my .02, I'm done.

John K9RZZ

 

[k9rzz]

I understand. Time is precious. I just can't stand seeing someone stuffing $$ in their pockets by selling something so simple. But that's America for 'ya.

http://www.hamuniverse.com/multidipole.html

Again, I really don't see how this is going to hear anything, that 100 foot hunk of end fed wire won't hear, given the same height. Given the poor state of HF propagation that we're experiencing these days, simply changing antennas isn't going to change what you're hearing, unless you go *BIG*.

John K9RZZ

 

[zguy1243]

Ok thanks!, this looks like a good one to build. One question. Should I use a Balun at the feed point of the antenna?

I understand. Time is precious. I just can't stand seeing someone stuffing $$ in their pockets by selling something so simple. But that's America for 'ya.

http://www.hamuniverse.com/multidipole.html

Again, I really don't see how this is going to hear anything, that 100 foot hunk of end fed wire won't hear, given the same height. Given the poor state of HF propagation that we're experiencing these days, simply changing antennas isn't going to change what you're hearing, unless you go *BIG*.

John K9RZZ

 

[dbox1]

bump..

 

[k9rzz]

You could, but I wouldn't. Will you hear a difference in the speakers when comparing using a balun or not? I really don't think so. Keep it simple, and get it up as high as you can. THAT will make a difference.

John K9RZZ

 

[prcguy]

Since your looking to receive a wide range of frequencies and receive only, here are some things to consider. The lower HF bands are driven by signal to noise ratio on receive and there is lots of noise most of the time. Except for directional antennas that you can point towards the signal of interest and reject other interfering stations, the signal to noise ratio of most common wire antennas is going to be similar. If they pick up less signal there will usually be a correspondingly less amount of noise, everything else being equal. For best DX a low angle antenna is good, but not practical for general purpose SW listening and here is my opinion why. A properly installed vertical with radials will have low angle properties but with additional noise pickup over a horizontal antenna, not so good. A horizontal antenna at multiples of 1/2 wavelength off the ground is also great for low angle but impractical for the low and wide frequency range you want. Short Wave receive antennas are usually a compromise and you put them up as high as possible and away from noise sources in the house like computers, TVs, etc. A coax fed or balanced fed dipole will allow you to get the antenna away from noise sources and the feedline will reject some house born noise compared to running a long wire antenna directly to the radio. Cutting the dipole to a specific tuned length is moot because you’re going to use it all over the place. A balun may be useful for reducing common mode noise on the feedline, otherwise it doesn’t have much practical use for your receive only application. A good active antenna is a consideration but a good one cost lots of $$ unless you build it. It sounds like you have room for a fairly long antenna and I have yet to see an active antenna that will outperform a large wire antenna but they are great for limited space. Of all the antennas I’ve used over the last 40yrs a T2FD and the much hated Maxcom “antenna matcher” have been my favorites for SW listening. They hear everything that full size resonant dipoles hear yet they are very quiet. The signal strength is down a bit from a resonant dipole but the noise seems to be much lower and I can comfortably hear things that seem to be covered in noise on other antennas. They also present a very good match to 50ohm coax from DC to light and you can transmit anywhere in a pinch.
prcguy