• Effective immediately we will be deleting, without notice, any negative threads or posts that deal with the use of encryption and streaming of scanner audio.

    We've noticed a huge increase in rants and negative posts that revolve around agencies going to encryption due to the broadcasting of scanner audio on the internet. It's now worn out and continues to be the same recycled rants. These rants hijack the threads and derail the conversation. They no longer have a place anywhere on this forum other than in the designated threads in the Rants forum in the Tavern.

    If you violate these guidelines your post will be deleted without notice and an infraction will be issued. We are not against discussion of this issue. You just need to do it in the right place. For example:
    https://forums.radioreference.com/rants/224104-official-thread-live-audio-feeds-scanners-wait-encryption.html

High-speed network for first responders raises concerns

ChrisE_STB

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So I guess AT&T is looking for an FCC/FTC complaint against them?

They are sending out targeted ads to public safety agencies talking about first responders and family members on FirstNet.

If family members are then being steered to "discount plans" (discount meaning poor service too?). That sounds awfully like false advertising and bait and switch
Family Members are not allowed on FirstNet. Only the First Responder is given FirstNet. When I switched over in September, my line was removed from my AT&T account and had a FirstNet account created with a different account #. My other lines stayed on the old account with my Public Safety Discount.
 

zapman987

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So I guess AT&T is looking for an FCC/FTC complaint against them?

They are sending out targeted ads to public safety agencies talking about first responders and family members on FirstNet.

If family members are then being steered to "discount plans" (discount meaning poor service too?). That sounds awfully like false advertising and bait and switch
And a few months ago they were still training folks. Find a store now that doesn't have at least someone, and most often the whole staff now knowledgeable. Its really not much different than regular service signups. Just a different phone and the black sim. Now all the tech stuff the average sales person probably has no clue on. But they know how to sign up service.

Discount is regular ATT service with a discount. Honestly that is no different than if you are military and their discount (I think its been said its the same)
 

hitechRadio

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Of course the MEDIA would want clear comm's, and access to information. This is nothing new!

"Alex Tarquinio, president of the Society of Professional Journalists, believes a government-sanctioned service should include a portion that's open to the media."

Here is the video of J. Alex Tarquinio, the one is mentioned in the article. She is not hard to miss, she is the one that will not shut up!
 

Spankymedic7

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… The network is secure, encrypted and off limits to the public. But it has raised concerns among media advocates that the secrecy shields police and others from scrutiny as more agencies cut access to their traditional radio communications....
There's already a trend toward silencing police radios for the public. A growing number of agencies, including Anchorage police, have cut access to scanner radio traffic, citing safety concerns. The move eliminates a traditional resource and oversight tool for journalists and others. ...

High-speed network for first responders raises concerns

Well there's the problem right there...the media "advocates". Given the fact that everyone has their phones out recording everything under the sun, I really don't think that the absence of radio traffic would help conceal alleged unsavory conduct...and I'm saying that as a public safety professional.

As a radio enthusiast, do I not like public safety agencies encrypting radio traffic? You bet. On the flip side of the coin, I really don't care for scores of media surrounding those on scene, not to mention the litany of "amateur videographers" (i.e. cellphones).

Just my $0.2.
 

wa8pyr

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FirstNet is AT&T LTE on Band 14 (758-768 MHz), nothing more, nothing less. It's no different than Verizon LTE on Band 13 (746-756 MHz) as far as core functionality.

The key differences are that FirstNet allows for higher power base stations and devices than you'd normally get with LTE, and that public safety get priority access to the network.
FirstNet uses all the frequency bands including Band 14 (which is reserved for FirstNet); it's not limited solely to that band. FirstNet also uses a totally separate system core which the public is not on, so it's easier for the general public to be shut out if it becomes necessary.

Most new sites (at least in Ohio) which are being installed to expand coverage for FirstNet are using Band 14, so there may be areas where FirstNet users have coverage, and ordinary peons do not.

I'm on FirstNet and it does seem to have better coverage than the "traditional" AT&T network, at least from what I've noticed. I've got coverage in places I had limited coverage in previously.

As to the question asked earlier, yes. FirstNet is a cellular/data network, and the AT&T folks have already admitted that it will never replace traditional LMR systems, but will be an important adjunct to them. There will of course be some agencies willing to risk putting all their eggs in one basket over which they have no control, though. . . .
 

thomasm901

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First Net is a creature of politics. In the aftermath of 911 the politicians, being politicians, found "interoperability"
between public safety agencies during 911 was lacking, in their opinion. As politicians like to do, they were going
to solve this problem. As with most politicians they had no idea or understanding what the real issues were. Six
billion dollars were allocated for studying and implementing a government funded and sponsored system. You
know how well politicians solve all of our problems by spending money. After all their political rhetoric they had
to figure out what exactly they should do. A committee was established to study the problem and come up with
a solution. At first it appeared that they were trying to implement some type of nationwide LMR type system but realized that it was not feasible at the time and it might not work. After years of study the committee came up
with the idea of creating a 4G LTE type system dedicated to public safety. This is the form that is being presented
to the public safety community. This is not to say that eventually there will not be some type of PTT system, such
as NEXTEL was, that will be for public safety. In my humble opinion it is a huge waste of the taxpayers money just
to reinvent a 4G LTE system that we already have with Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, and Sprint.
 

milf

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Keep Public Safety off the same networks as general public as general public OVERLOADS its net every time there is a disaster even if its not a disaster. Why do you think that the Amateur Radio community has to help out in the background with civilian communications so often? Hint: The so called ROBUST cellular networks, and landline phone systems CRASH! The waste of money is when you toss cash at an corporation that has massive failure as its history, but kiss their booty because they threw massive cash at a few folks first.
 

12dbsinad

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After 9/11, millions of dollars of taxpayer money was thrown at the new buzzword "Interoperability". P25 was the focus of choice. All that ended with the invention of DMR, Mototrbo, and NXDN when salesman and people who had no idea what they were doing started placing public safety here. After all, it is "digital" and is cheaper. With that said, I am also a firm believer that "P25" has been and will continue to be a complete rip off to the taxpayer. Nothing we have done IMHO has helped with interop after spending millions. That's because the solution is simple and doesn't require wiz bang technology but a simple mind set.

Now the solution is refocused on FirstNet LTE. We are to believe a for profit company is going to have our first responders at heart, and THIS will solve the problem of everyone being able to talk to everyone, at some point in the future. And we are going to cover the entire United States in the 700Mhz band.

Personally, federal government should stay the hell out of the radio business, stop fattening the wallets of large corporations, and let the local jurisdictions figure it out with the people who maintain critical communications, and hold there fellow responders at heart. Just my 2 cents.
 
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JRayfield

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I posted something but then decided to delete it. But there doesn't seem to be a way to delete a post (even by the 'poster'), so I'm just putting this in. Sorry.
John
 
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Bob1955

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A bit off topic but I'm still not quite sure about some of the basics of FirstNet

The area where I am in emergency services has poor AT&T service. Are they building new towers just for FirstNet or will AT&T poor areas be just as poor

They are also advertising FirstNet as specifically for emergency responders and their families. What type of access do the families have and is it any different then what the general public could get on Band 14?
I have FIRSTNET and it is NOT worth the extra money of regular AT&T or prepaid which I had for $35.00 per month less $5.00 for auto pay. The only difference is unlimited data. The same DEAD zones are there. I went up from $33 a month to $52.00 e per month. The plan I'm on is $39.99 per month but than you have all the stupid taxes they hit you with. I would STAY clear of it.
 

Bob1955

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Isn't FirstNet a cell phone and data system? And isn't it supposed to be in addition to a radio system not in replacement?

FirstNet's real dirty secret is who is eligible for the system.
Police/Fire/EMT with the proper ID.
 

JRayfield

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I have FIRSTNET and it is NOT worth the extra money of regular AT&T or prepaid which I had for $35.00 per month less $5.00 for auto pay. The only difference is unlimited data. The same DEAD zones are there. I went up from $33 a month to $52.00 e per month. The plan I'm on is $39.99 per month but than you have all the stupid taxes they hit you with. I would STAY clear of it.
I know a group in Central Missouri that use it for PTT voice and they love it. AT&T has good coverage in that area already and any holes that do exist will eventually be built out with Band 14 sites to improve the FirstNet user coverage.

Also, there is a difference in the FirstNet network as compared to regular AT&T cellular, other than just 'unlimited data'. The FirstNet work is prioritized for those users, even on 'regular' AT&T sites/networks. So in a situation where the 'regular' AT&T networks are unavailable due to 'congestion' (too many people trying to use the system), FirstNet users will be able to get access. That's one of the key 'selling points' of FirstNet.

John Rayfield, Jr.
 

N1DDC

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I personally think that Verizon’s FiberOptic 5G version of FirstNet is a lot more attractive. Lower price, higher streaming/download/data speeds, and we all know Verizon has a crap-ton more towers & coverage than AT&T does. And I’ve been an AT&T customer for 25 years, but during a disaster it leaves a lot to be desired... I recently gave a presentation at a conference for all sorts of Federal officials and while I can’t disclose the content of the meeting due to it being Classified, I CAN tell you that from what I saw Verizon blows AT&T out of the water; AND Verizon has an impressive Emergency Response Team (which is publicly listed on their website) that deploys to disaster-stricken sites and provides 24/7 communications for Public Safety! I can’t recall if AT&T has that. I just as well get a GETS/WPS card and be done with it, personally. I’ll get the same service...
 

mmckenna

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I personally think that Verizon’s FiberOptic 5G version of FirstNet is a lot more attractive. Lower price, higher streaming/download/data speeds, and we all know Verizon has a crap-ton more towers & coverage than AT&T does. And I’ve been an AT&T customer for 25 years, but during a disaster it leaves a lot to be desired... I recently gave a presentation at a conference for all sorts of Federal officials and while I can’t disclose the content of the meeting due to it being Classified, I CAN tell you that from what I saw Verizon blows AT&T out of the water; AND Verizon has an impressive Emergency Response Team (which is publicly listed on their website) that deploys to disaster-stricken sites and provides 24/7 communications for Public Safety! I can’t recall if AT&T has that. I just as well get a GETS/WPS card and be done with it, personally. I’ll get the same service...
WPS only gives you priority on the voice side of the call and only on the wireless segment of it. Using GETS combined with WPS will get you priority on the wired side of the call.
But none of those will give you priority on the data network side.
Verizon can give you priority on the network side if you ask for it and have the job to back up the need.
 

N1DDC

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WPS only gives you priority on the voice side of the call and only on the wireless segment of it. Using GETS combined with WPS will get you priority on the wired side of the call.
But none of those will give you priority on the data network side.
Verizon can give you priority on the network side if you ask for it and have the job to back up the need.
I guess Verizon would be the better choice then... LOL
 

wa8pyr

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I personally think that Verizon’s FiberOptic 5G version of FirstNet is a lot more attractive. Lower price, higher streaming/download/data speeds, and we all know Verizon has a crap-ton more towers & coverage than AT&T does. And I’ve been an AT&T customer for 25 years, but during a disaster it leaves a lot to be desired... I recently gave a presentation at a conference for all sorts of Federal officials and while I can’t disclose the content of the meeting due to it being Classified, I CAN tell you that from what I saw Verizon blows AT&T out of the water; AND Verizon has an impressive Emergency Response Team (which is publicly listed on their website) that deploys to disaster-stricken sites and provides 24/7 communications for Public Safety! I can’t recall if AT&T has that. I just as well get a GETS/WPS card and be done with it, personally. I’ll get the same service...
The problem with the Verizon offering is that public safety users are sharing the same network core as civilian users, and Verizon is not mandated by Federal law to ensure priority access to first responders. They might say they're going to provide priority access, but since you're on the same network core as the civilians, there's not really an easy way for them to do it. FirstNet puts first responders on a separate network core, which makes it easier to shut off the civilian core if necessary.
 

GTR8000

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The problem with the Verizon offering is that public safety users are sharing the same network core as civilian users, and Verizon is not mandated by Federal law to ensure priority access to first responders. They might say they're going to provide priority access, but since you're on the same network core as the civilians, there's not really an easy way for them to do it. FirstNet puts first responders on a separate network core, which makes it easier to shut off the civilian core if necessary.
Verizon has built out a separate core for public safety; it is not mixed with the commercial core. They may not be mandated by federal law, however they have clearly taken the initiative to build out their own version of FirstNet, and they appear to be serious about making sure that public safety users are not simply mixed in with the rest. Please read the following brief, it explains the Verizon Responder Private Core.

https://enterprise.verizon.com/resources/solutionsbriefs/2018/verizon_responder_private_core_sb.pdf
 

mmckenna

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In a perfect world the Verizon and FirstNet cores would be linked. I know Verizon says they want to do that, but apparently AT&T/FN is not willing.
 
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