Hopewell Culture NHP freq

[zerg901]

https://docs.google.com/open?id=1seLGQfg6cl2Asd5usOjJpBjqA_70Z5L_aGPi-Pi-_HsRx41mMnwRePycFvih

Hopewell Culture Natl Historic Park near Chillicothe Ohio seems to use 166.375 as their radio channel per the 2007 fire plan above

I dont see this freq listed in the Radio Ref Ohio database nor mentioned in a search of the archives of this forum

 

[W8RMH]

The information has to be submitted to appear in the database.

 

[ecps92]

Reading the original document
http://www.nps.gov/hocu/parkmgmt/upload/HMG_Burn_2007-3.pdf
from the document itself
"This Park Unit does not have a radio system. These frequencies are Boise’s tactical frequencies and the frequency that is assigned to the Park Unit"


Sounds to me like the Freqs were assigned for/during the 2007
prescribed burn only. Unless someone Local can advise otherwise.

The information has to be submitted to appear in the database.

 

[zerg901]

Bill, I dont think that 166.375 is a Boise / NIFC freq. So I dont know where they got 166.375 from. And if they have their own ATV and Type 6 engine, then I would think that they actually would have their own radio system.

I also was hoping that someone in Ohio could check out the freq.

I only mentioned that Radio Ref database so no one would waste their time looking for info there.

 

[SCPD]

The way it is stated in the plan is a bit confusing. What is means is that 166.375 is assigned to the unit, they just don't have a radio system such as repeaters. It depends on how this is interpreted but it implies that there aren't any base stations as well. The use of 166.375 by both the NPS and BLM is very common, especially the NPS. The words "assigned to the park unit" probably mean the assignment is permanent. The NPS calls each one of their parks, monuments, national seashores, national historic parks, etc. a "unit."

I don't think such an assignment is for one prescribed fire project only, such would be outside the norm. I'm a bit surprised that they have an engine given the small size of the unit. However, it was probably brought down from Indiana Dunes for this as may have been the case for the ATV. This unit is only 300 some acres.

 

[ecps92]

Thanks Smokey, sometimes reading these older docuements can be a challenge, hopefully before it get's added to the RRDB someone can Validate the actual use vs our speculations.

So much to listen to and search for, but so few do

The way it is stated in the plan is a bit confusing. What is means is that 166.375 is assigned to the unit, they just don't have a radio system such as repeaters. It depends on how this is interpreted but it implies that there aren't any base stations as well. The use of 166.375 by both the NPS and BLM is very common, especially the NPS. The words "assigned to the park unit" probably mean the assignment is permanent. The NPS calls each one of their parks, monuments, national seashores, national historic parks, etc. a "unit."

I don't think such an assignment is for one prescribed fire project only, such would be outside the norm. I'm a bit surprised that they have an engine given the small size of the unit. However, it was probably brought down from Indiana Dunes for this as may have been the case for the ATV. This unit is only 300 some acres.

 

[zerg901]

I dont see Indiana Dunes listed in the Indiana database. I wonder if 166.375 is their freq?

Why would they list 166.375 in the fire plan if there are no radios that use 166.375? Just to be bureaucratic? Or could there be 1 or 2 portable or mobile NPS radios near Chillicothe Ohio that do operate on 166.375?

( I did notice that there were $4,000? in transportation costs for 6 or 7 NPS people on the fire plan - people and vehicles coming from Indiana Dunes might explain that).

 

[SCPD]

I will take another stab at this. The fire management officer umbrella Hopewell Cultural is Indiana Dunes. 166.375 might be the frequency for that unit. I seems interesting that Hopewell does not have a radio system as even though the acreage of the park is low, it is in 7 different and widely spaced parcels. I would bet, based on the verbiage in the burn plan, there are no mobiles or portables assigned to Hopewell. The burn boss and the remainder of the 12 people assigned to this prescribed fire must be bringing radios from Indiana Dunes. Some of those 12 might be from other places in that NPS Region. Never the less, they are probably using Indiana Dunes radio frequency.

This is very spotty information and reminds me of reading U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service burn plans. Some National Wildlife Refuges don't have radio systems either, due to small size and distance from other refuges. The burn plans are often very vague about radio systems, frequencies, if people on the ground can reach a dispatcher by radio or phone and other similar details.

I may have a book at home that might show frequency assignments for NPS units in the midwest, however it is dated 1996 and is the information for small park units east of the 100th meridian is usually sketchy. The notebook is buried right now anyway. 6 weeks of remodeling and I can't get my office organized because one door has been put in backward and I can't mount one bookcase to the wall to make room for tearing it out, which hasn't been done yet, so most of my books are sitting in big stacks. Arrrgh!

 

[scat]

[QUuOTE=zerg901;1765642]I dont see Indiana Dunes listed in the Indiana database. I wonder if 166.375 is their freq?

[/QUOTE]

If you go to the Indiana database and click on Porter county and under the county quick jumps there is a link to Indiana Dunes NL. It dosen't show 166.375 as a freq. for them. Years ago there was a web site that listed Radio Freq. by state for NPS and Call signs. It shows 166.375 as the Freq. for Hopewell Cultuer NHP, it did not have a call sign for it. That Web site did have call signs foe Indiana Dunes NL as KQC708, KQC723 & KQC724. I was at Indiana Dunes NL last year for a couple of hours but did not hear any radio traffic.

Scot

 

[SCPD]

If you go to the Indiana database and click on Porter county and under the county quick jumps there is a link to Indiana Dunes NL. It dosen't show 166.375 as a freq. for them. Years ago there was a web site that listed Radio Freq. by state for NPS and Call signs. It shows 166.375 as the Freq. for Hopewell Cultuer NHP, it did not have a call sign for it. That Web site did have call signs foe Indiana Dunes NL as KQC708, KQC723 & KQC724. I was at Indiana Dunes NL last year for a couple of hours but did not hear any radio traffic.

Scot

It doesn't make any sense for a federal agency's frequency listing to be buried in a county page. If I had to search through every county in the west for frequencies used by the Forest Service, BLM, National Park Service and the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service I would never keep up. I tried to look for Indiana Dunes and thought I looked at Porter County, but how would I know what county this National Lakeshore is in? Federal radio systems belong in the area wide section of a state's listings.

 

[SCPD]

If you look at the listing for Indiana Dunes the second channel is listed with a frequency of 166.975. This is the input frequency for repeaters on 166.375. The repeater inputs used to be 600 kHz higher than the outputs, at least for the radio systems of federal natural resource agencies. I'm not sure how this relates to the use of 166.375 at Hopewell Culture. Is the listing for 166.975 incorrect as a simplex frequency and it really is the input for a 166.375 repeater? Has the other frequency of this pair been assigned to Hopewell?

 

[scat]

I have run a cross some other NPS and others in country listings when looking for information for parks. So now I see what county a park is in and check the county information too. Thats how I found Indiana Dunes Freq. for my trip home last year.

Scot

 

[zerg901]

Maybe part of the problem is that federal freqs can be found in - nationwide listing, statewide listing, county page, or a link from county page, or in the wiki

It can be very difficult to determine which countys apply to which federal agencies or federal units. It can be very hard to figure out which federal dispatch centers apply to which counties. It can be very difficult to determine which channels apply to which counties.

I wonder if the NIFC freqs are true nationwide allocations? Or do they have other users in various parts of the country. I would suspect that most of the wildfire frequency allocations are active west of the Mississippi River. And you also have to remember that NIFC does supply radios for hurricanes and earthquakes.

Pulling all of this info together into the Radio Reference Database seems to be quite the challenge.

 

[SCPD]

Maybe part of the problem is that federal freqs can be found in - nationwide listing, statewide listing, county page, or a link from county page, or in the wiki

It can be very difficult to determine which countys apply to which federal agencies or federal units. It can be very hard to figure out which federal dispatch centers apply to which counties. It can be very difficult to determine which channels apply to which counties.

I wonder if the NIFC freqs are true nationwide allocations? Or do they have other users in various parts of the country. I would suspect that most of the wildfire frequency allocations are active west of the Mississippi River. And you also have to remember that NIFC does supply radios for hurricanes and earthquakes.

Pulling all of this info together into the Radio Reference Database seems to be quite the challenge.

Most state database pages have federal listings in one place and that is the area wide frequencies. A person should not have to search any further for any federal frequencies than that. This should be a standard policy for database listings for RR. Until now, I thought this was the policy.

170.0000 used to be restricted west of the Mississippi or the 100th meridian, but the use of that frequency by NIFC ends June 30th. The NIFC cache is used all over the country for all types of incidents, including many hurricanes, one or more political conventions and in New York on the World Trade center incident.

The NIFC cache is used nationwide its frequencies belong in the nationwide listings. The remainder, used on NPS units, National Forests, BLM districts, Indian Reservations and National Wildlife Refuges are localized and should be shown as I have stated. In almost every case these jurisdictions include several counties and it doesn't make sense to place them in individual counties. In the case of Indiana Dunes, it is located in both Porter and Lake Counties so why is it just listed in Porter County. It looks like whoever placed it in Porter Country is unfamiliar with the National Park Service as they have two frequencies labeled as "Police." This is not a label normally put on an NPS frequency unless it involves the Park Police, of which Indiana Dunes is not staffed with Park Police.

 

[SCPD]

I continued the discussion of the database on the database forum. It seems there are people who want the feds listed by county.