I work for an airline and know even at 36000 feet ground comm will static. Seems odd. I flew HOU-JAN and we had static several times using the bottom antenna on a 73 at FL410 I drove from Houston to San Antonio and they have a remote antenna halfway that relays ZHU Tracons.
How far can one realisticly receive ARTCC sgnals?
- Thread starter fourthhorseman
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fourthhorseman,
The New York TRACON (N90) entry on wikipedia is very good as well ...
New York TRACON - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Skyvector is good for charts ...
SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts
I'm still skeptical that you are actually hearing stuff from as far away as Georgia in Central MA. Are you still hearing flights from that far away ? If you do hear something very far away again can you post the flight number, frequency and time you heard it ? I'm curious to figure out what is going on here ?
BMT,
The RR database is very good but it is starting to get a little dated in some areas. I've noticed a few discrepencies between the database and what I've heard from personal monitoring and/or current ARTCC charts. When I get some free time I'll try and make some submissions to update it with the changes I've come across.
The New York TRACON (N90) entry on wikipedia is very good as well ...
New York TRACON - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Skyvector is good for charts ...
SkyVector: Flight Planning / Aeronautical Charts
I'm still skeptical that you are actually hearing stuff from as far away as Georgia in Central MA. Are you still hearing flights from that far away ? If you do hear something very far away again can you post the flight number, frequency and time you heard it ? I'm curious to figure out what is going on here ?
BMT,
The RR database is very good but it is starting to get a little dated in some areas. I've noticed a few discrepencies between the database and what I've heard from personal monitoring and/or current ARTCC charts. When I get some free time I'll try and make some submissions to update it with the changes I've come across.
VHF/UHF are line of sight. I could hear Memphis Center and Razorback app controllers 27 air miles away in Silwell, OK but only because the RCAG was on a mountain. ATC towers are all low power. Some RCAGS in Oregon, WA and AZ are above 5,000 feet for Center use.
Years ago KLIT had to go to 135.4 for approach from 124.2 to keep from interfering with KOKC 124.2. Same with KFSM and KOKC towers as both were 118.3, so OKC changed to 119.35.
Years ago KLIT had to go to 135.4 for approach from 124.2 to keep from interfering with KOKC 124.2. Same with KFSM and KOKC towers as both were 118.3, so OKC changed to 119.35.
The majority of FAA comm facilities transmit 10 watts with very few exceptions. There are some out west that may transmit 50 watts or a directional antenna but these are an exception. Some ATIS transmitters transmit as low as 2.5 watts.
The ruling factor is the ATC requirement for coverage and the required service volume.
This time of year you can have atmospheric ducting AKA skip that will allow a receiver hear a facility that they normally wouldn't hear. I was head up to EWR 1 day a couple of years ago from ACY. I had 1 of the local ACY frequencies tuned in on my DF equipment. I was able to hear a LGA controller loud and clear. Once the air started to heat up I lost the LGA transmissions.
When I was in flight Inspection we were commissioning a radar in Richmond, VA 1 morning. The ground engineers told us we had they wanted us to wait for a while before starting our flight pattern. So I tuned in a LGA frequency and we bored holes in the sky until we didn't hear the controllers any more. The pilots didn't understand why we had to wait and I explained to them the atmospheric ducting would also affect radar signals.
Atmospheric dusting is very common this time of year. When you have a fairly cool night and warm or hot afternoon you can have the ducting both in the morning and evening.
ke4ah
Member
There has been great band conditions just about every night the last two weeks here in NW Alabama. Presently, I am listening to the controllers in 4 sectors of Memphis (ZME) Center and 2 sectors of Atlanta (ZTL) Center that I normally can only hear the aircraft on. Jefferson County and Birmingham PD's 800 MHz digital trunking systems are coming in too. If you are a night owl like me, it's great!
All this using an Antennacraft scanner antenna into my BCD536HP.
All this using an Antennacraft scanner antenna into my BCD536HP.
Ultra-highs above FL360 are easily heard for hundreds of miles, just not the controllers. Above FL360 easy peasy. Lots of freqs get moved around , too, in this day and age.
In the 1980s I lived in Clinton, Arkansas, and could hear the low and high ZME freq controllers with ease. Then ZME moved them to Pine Bluff, Arkansas, which did not work well as far as reception because I could hear the airline pilots constantly complaining they could not hear the controller. So they constructed a RCAG at KORK and moved the mid-high there and added an ultra-high while discarding the low ZME freq to KHOT and Mount Magazine. The former site at Russellville, ARK, which is gone now, was operational at one time. Another RCAG site west of Pine Bluff, ARK was torn down, too, in a forest of pine trees. They moved that to the more secure environs of the Pine Bluff airport. Freqs get moved around, and changed a lot and not all Center RCAGS are based at airports.
On my morning walks I can hear the ZME controller on 128.475 off of Mount Magazine, ARK, 50 miles to the southeast with good clarity on a handheld. It is the same controller working 126.1 from KFYV and occ FSM as well as 128.475 from KHOT (DECOD).
In the 1980s I lived in Clinton, Arkansas, and could hear the low and high ZME freq controllers with ease. Then ZME moved them to Pine Bluff, Arkansas, which did not work well as far as reception because I could hear the airline pilots constantly complaining they could not hear the controller. So they constructed a RCAG at KORK and moved the mid-high there and added an ultra-high while discarding the low ZME freq to KHOT and Mount Magazine. The former site at Russellville, ARK, which is gone now, was operational at one time. Another RCAG site west of Pine Bluff, ARK was torn down, too, in a forest of pine trees. They moved that to the more secure environs of the Pine Bluff airport. Freqs get moved around, and changed a lot and not all Center RCAGS are based at airports.
On my morning walks I can hear the ZME controller on 128.475 off of Mount Magazine, ARK, 50 miles to the southeast with good clarity on a handheld. It is the same controller working 126.1 from KFYV and occ FSM as well as 128.475 from KHOT (DECOD).
Okay so you are receiving the ZJX controller from the Crestview RCAG from your location in Central Florida. On both the VHF and UHF frequencies !?
If this is a true case of ducting/skip can you let us know how long this lasts please ? I'm curious how it correlates with this map of current conditions and the forecasts .....
VHF Propagation Map
Tropospheric Ducting Forecast for VHF & UHF Radio & TV
Thanks,
antenna
When I lived in Clinton, Ark. many years ago I actually did hear ZME 118.775 and 132.3 on my stereo radio hooked to the television antenna. It had an amplifier on it and the RCAG was 40 miles away on top of a mountain north of Russelvillle, Ark (now dismantled/gone). I don't know how I was getting the freqs as I was not using any scanner nor was the antenna oriented towards the west.
At the KCCA, I would sit in any aircraft and receive multiple reply lights on my transponder even though I was in a valley. At the time I was unaware of the Center radar to the southeast 25 miles and west, 40 miles Yet ZME claimed they could never "see" me. Any explanation? I watched lots of pilots make illegal, homegrown approaches into the airport during IFR. I always wondered if they knew that they were being watched via radar. A couple of guys used the local AM station as an ADF app, the rest used loran. I did not like it because C-130s and 141s from KLRF were doing practice IFR runs through the area at very low altitudes. I watched a B-52 come ripping by at 300 agl one day, probably from Barksdale AFB. Scary.
Hook it up! If it works, I will redo mine as it is not being used appropriately. FYI, I hooked my outside antenna up to a scanner. It has an amplifier on it, yet I still can't hear KFSM tower eight miles away on 118.3 or any tracon freqs, VHF or UHF. So, outside television antennas with an amplifier don't work where I am.
When I lived in Clinton, Ark. many years ago I actually did hear ZME 118.775 and 132.3 on my stereo radio hooked to the television antenna. It had an amplifier on it and the RCAG was 40 miles away on top of a mountain north of Russelvillle, Ark (now dismantled/gone). I don't know how I was getting the freqs as I was not using any scanner nor was the antenna oriented towards the west.
At the KCCA, I would sit in any aircraft and receive multiple reply lights on my transponder even though I was in a valley. At the time I was unaware of the Center radar to the southeast 25 miles and west, 40 miles Yet ZME claimed they could never "see" me. Any explanation? I watched lots of pilots make illegal, homegrown approaches into the airport during IFR. I always wondered if they knew that they were being watched via radar. A couple of guys used the local AM station as an ADF app, the rest used loran. I did not like it because C-130s and 141s from KLRF were doing practice IFR runs through the area at very low altitudes. I watched a B-52 come ripping by at 300 agl one day, probably from Barksdale AFB. Scary.
Went to Paris, Texas, today. That is where 134.47 is. Finally found it. Did not hear 133.55 as some have heard there. MLC still has three tiers 132.2. 135.45 and 128.125 ultra-high. Hopefully, a feed will be placed there soon. I just wonder how long three tiers will be allowed to be continued? Will 132.2 be moved to KOKM permanently? Numerous airliners holding with 134.47 this afternoon. Two diverted to OKC for fuel as well as two for KXNA. I heard a ground stop was in effect at DFW. One diverted to Wichita Falls for fuel, too.
I hope to install a liveatc.net feed at Paris. The UHF version can be heard all over town easily and the freq is extremely busy. May not get the feed in at Cox Field, but somebody in Paris can do it if I supply the equipment (raspberry pi plus scanner). Hear the controller on UHF and reply on 134.47 by the civilian aircraft. Any volunteers? Not quite sure the airport manager will do it. The RCAG is on the airfield, though, so it would be nice to place it there as it so much easier and the clarity is superb.
I hope to install a liveatc.net feed at Paris. The UHF version can be heard all over town easily and the freq is extremely busy. May not get the feed in at Cox Field, but somebody in Paris can do it if I supply the equipment (raspberry pi plus scanner). Hear the controller on UHF and reply on 134.47 by the civilian aircraft. Any volunteers? Not quite sure the airport manager will do it. The RCAG is on the airfield, though, so it would be nice to place it there as it so much easier and the clarity is superb.
profiledescent
Member
Doubtful 132.2 would leave. OKM was added to fill in blind spots for MLC. Glad you sorted out where 134.475 is. If PRX turns out to completely cover the service area, you may see it disappear from MLC.
134.475
A flight instructor down there (Paris) confirmed it a few days ago, but he also stated he heard a controller on 133.55. Today I did not hear 133.55 at all at Paris. 134.47 is very busy. It was fun listening to it and I ALSO hope MLC leaves the three tiers in place. I plan to open the feed (liveatc) there (MLC for sure). Centers don't usually like to have all three tiers in one place. Just sayin. Hence my feeds at FYV and HRO.
It remains to be seen if ZFW keeps all three at MLC. Came back through MLC at 6;30PM and all three were operational. You are right, OKM is really close to the ZKC boundary, so nothing will probably be moved, but HRO is close to the ZKC boundary and ZME put the ultra-high there anyway. I have always wondered why they did that rather than center it up for the sector involved. If you notice, by 9:45 at night ZME reverts back to 132.55 at FYV for ultra-high. Along about 6:45AM, 133.025 is utilized throughout the day at HRO for ultra-high. I now hear them handing off to MLC 128.125 and vice-versa when I was in MLC. 128.125MLC is also doing hand offs to ZKC at Edna, KS (118.125ultra-high) during the day instead of 133.925 in TUL. A lot of changes are occurring with the ultra-highs in this area.
I still think ZFW will move 132.2 to OKM eventually or maybe 135.45. Around here, I only usually hear two freqs from a Center RCAG. TXK just has 123.925 (low) now. That's it. 126.575 was moved to Cumby. I still don't know where 124.875 is in northern Texas. Must be Cumby. It is not around Bonham because I listened for it closely and heard nothing VHF/UHF. It is not around Sherman.
One last thing: I heard, as I was driving home tonight, 134.475 give a hand-off to 133.025 at KHRO, my feed, to an aircraft at FL400. Things are changing. Sectors are changing.
It seemed only natural considering the sector posted and where the aircraft were coming from. Just looking at it on flightaware helped me figure it out plus no controller was heard at MLC or TXK. I still think that they will redo the TXK site (relocation) because it is in a forest of pine trees with high dollar houses around it. Too many obstructions. Paris is much better for now, but I think that a new RCAG will take shape on the airport grounds of TXK one day with the obstructions out of the way. See Kansas City International or MEM.
A flight instructor down there (Paris) confirmed it a few days ago, but he also stated he heard a controller on 133.55. Today I did not hear 133.55 at all at Paris. 134.47 is very busy. It was fun listening to it and I ALSO hope MLC leaves the three tiers in place. I plan to open the feed (liveatc) there (MLC for sure). Centers don't usually like to have all three tiers in one place. Just sayin. Hence my feeds at FYV and HRO.
It remains to be seen if ZFW keeps all three at MLC. Came back through MLC at 6;30PM and all three were operational. You are right, OKM is really close to the ZKC boundary, so nothing will probably be moved, but HRO is close to the ZKC boundary and ZME put the ultra-high there anyway. I have always wondered why they did that rather than center it up for the sector involved. If you notice, by 9:45 at night ZME reverts back to 132.55 at FYV for ultra-high. Along about 6:45AM, 133.025 is utilized throughout the day at HRO for ultra-high. I now hear them handing off to MLC 128.125 and vice-versa when I was in MLC. 128.125MLC is also doing hand offs to ZKC at Edna, KS (118.125ultra-high) during the day instead of 133.925 in TUL. A lot of changes are occurring with the ultra-highs in this area.
I still think ZFW will move 132.2 to OKM eventually or maybe 135.45. Around here, I only usually hear two freqs from a Center RCAG. TXK just has 123.925 (low) now. That's it. 126.575 was moved to Cumby. I still don't know where 124.875 is in northern Texas. Must be Cumby. It is not around Bonham because I listened for it closely and heard nothing VHF/UHF. It is not around Sherman.
One last thing: I heard, as I was driving home tonight, 134.475 give a hand-off to 133.025 at KHRO, my feed, to an aircraft at FL400. Things are changing. Sectors are changing.
Is 133.55 active around KPRX or not? Anybody know?
jaymatt1978
Member
I live in Northern NJ and programmed in every NYATCC frequency and get 90% of them on a regular basis. I also programmed in ALL of the DC ATCC frequencies located in NJ and get most of them! I'm corious now what is the best spot in the US to recieve the most ATCC's?
DPD1
Member
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Something to also keep in mind, is that... in certain situations, they can actually patch radio traffic in, by linking systems. I've heard this done a few times, where you start hearing both sides of traffic at a field or something, that is hundreds of miles away. Usually you can tell by the quality of the audio. I think they mainly just do it for testing stuff out, or testing a backup link or something. But it's very rare. Also have had rare incidents where aircraft have inadvertently repeated traffic somehow. If that was to happen, it would be most likely with a military aircraft, that has numerous comm suites. They can actually have the ability to do it with their own flights, acting as a repeater... between, say... a ship and an extended flight that is too far for direct comms. But I have heard them screw up and do it to ATC. Obviously that will only last so long though.
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