Icom: IC-7200 vs IC-7600 not much improvement in the radio dept.

[prc117f]

Looking over the two radios it seems the IC-7200 is a pretty good radio for the price. for a bit over 2000 dollars extra the specs on the radio side do not seem that much better, and transmit specs are actually better on the IC-7200 it seems. (IMD)

so it seems the extra money is primarily going towards the LCD screen and the "Spectrum display" which by todays standard is pretty lacking, especially compared to what you see on the IC-7851.plus some other features (ie FM, etc..)

I wonder if the IC-7600 is overdue for an upgrade. something like a IC-7650?

 

[AK9R]

First off, Icom announced a firmware upgrade for the IC-7600 this week. Reportedly, it will be available for download by the end of the month. The upgrade adds waterfall and audio waveform capability as well as point and click features to the spectrum display. Supposedly, some of the features recently added to the IC-7700 and IC-7800 spectrum display have been ported down to the IC-7600.

The best prices I'm seeing for the IC-7200 are around $800. However, it's out of stock at many of the major dealers. Don't know if Icom underestimated the demand or if production has slowed for some reason. It's a nice radio (I have one). Imagine an IC-7000 with monochrome display, no spectrum scope, no RTTY decoding, no 2m or 70cm, no FM (would be useful on 6m and 10m), but with a larger chassis (better head dissipation), internal speaker, more buttons (better ergonomics), and internal USB sound card (great for digital modes).

The best prices I'm seeing on the IC-7600 are around $3000. It's a great radio (I have one). Good IF DSP, great notch filter (either automatic or manual), really useful IF filtering, built-in color LCD with spectrum display (plus the additional features the firmware upgrade will give us), built-in RTTY and PSK31 decoder/encoder, twin-peak audio filtering on RTTY, peak audio filtering on CW, built-in USB sound card (great for digital modes), FM on 6m and 10m, three transmit bandwidths with user-selectable equalization, built-in audio recorder with voice memories (great for contesting), built-in memory keyer for CW/RTTY/PSK31, built-in auto tuner, and the list goes on. I enjoy my IC-7600 every time I use it.

The IC-7600 is in a completely different class from the IC-7200.

 

[prc117f]

I agree the IC-7600 adds a lot of features not on the IC-7200, but on a pure radio perspective I was hoping for much more.

I was impressed with the 7851 waterfall/spectrum but it was pretty much like an SDR realtime compared to the IC-7600 but then again the 7851 has 3 DSPs the Scope has a dedicated ADSP-21489 which is much more powerful than the one in the 7600. I doubt you will get the real time scope

IC-7200 is quite a radio for 800 dollars, ICOM is out so what is out there seems to be the stock remaining. I wonder if it is being discontinued.

For 3000 I would like to see better TX IMD than the 7200, and significant receive improvements over the 7200.

The 7600 definitely has the bells and whistles over the 7200 but if ICOM came out with a 7650 for 3K with better RF (TX/RX) than todays 7600 and the ADSP-21489's I might bite. Maybe 2016?

 

[SCPD]

The IC-7600 is in a completely different class from the IC-7200.

Having owned the 7600 for 1.5 years I would have to agree. There's no contest here. I've had several transceivers since then and the 7600 had the best transmit audio hands down. The 590S is close but not as good as the 7600.

I would have kept mine but needed the money at the time. The firmware upgrade is a bit too late. That would have been a key selling point a couple years ago before the RTL SDR devices hit.

 

[prc117f]

Having owned the 7600 for 1.5 years I would have to agree. There's no contest here. I've had several transceivers since then and the 7600 had the best transmit audio hands down. The 590S is close but not as good as the 7600.

I would have kept mine but needed the money at the time. The firmware upgrade is a bit too late. That would have been a key selling point a couple years ago before the RTL SDR devices hit.

The ic-7410 has better specs in transmit than the ic-7600 and the receiver is on par with the 7600.

It's the best bang for the buck ICOM especially at 1400 usd.

 

[prcguy]

A guy in my town has a 7600 and when he transmits my spectrum display lights up like a christmas tree. His 7600 puts out a lot of energy outside a normal transmit passband and to me it looks like IMD since the extra energy has a similar shape above and below the frequency he's transmitting on. His signal takes up a good 10KHz when he really gets on the mic.
prcguy

The ic-7410 has better specs in transmit than the ic-7600 and the receiver is on par with the 7600.

It's the best bang for the buck ICOM especially at 1400 usd.

 

[AK9R]

Is he using an amplifier?

What mode is he transmitting in? If SSB, is he using excessive mic gain?

 

[prcguy]

The Icom 7600 was in SSB, with and without an amp looks the same. The guy has nice loud transmit audio and I suspect the problem would not be as bad if he turned the mic gain down but then it would loose the nice sound.

Kind of reminds me of a Yaesu FTDX-1200 which has horrible IMD on transmit. You can spot them easily on the bands with a scope. One local 1200 owner took his radio back to Yaesu after many complaints and they measured it and claimed it met all specs. Apparently they feed it audio test tones on the test bench that don't replicate real world mic levels.

He brought the 1200 back home and it lit up about 10Khz of spectrum on transmit again. That guy could turn the mic gain way down and the problem would clear up but the radio sounded like a little wimpy signal off in the distance, so there is no good solution for some of these rigs with high IMD problems. This particular Yaesu 1200 owner finally sold the rig and bought a K3 and never looked back.
prcguy

Is he using an amplifier?

What mode is he transmitting in? If SSB, is he using excessive mic gain?

 

[prcguy]

While the Icom 7600s I've heard all sound good, a friend recently got a Kenwood TS-590S and went through several mics and a lot of adjustments to make it sound decent and it still doesn't really good, just decent. I see there are many postings of how to set up transmit audio on a 590 and one of them is 28 pages long!
prcguy

Having owned the 7600 for 1.5 years I would have to agree. There's no contest here. I've had several transceivers since then and the 7600 had the best transmit audio hands down. The 590S is close but not as good as the 7600.

I would have kept mine but needed the money at the time. The firmware upgrade is a bit too late. That would have been a key selling point a couple years ago before the RTL SDR devices hit.

 

[prc117f]

Whats funny is the 7410 has better IMD specs than the more expensive IC-7600 with its lame 4fps spectrum display.

The ICOM lineup

IC-7200 (good value) Great starter radio for the price (800 bucks)
IC-7410 (great value)
IC-7600 (poor value)
IC-7700 (long in the tooth)
IC-7851 (Too expensive, it should be a 9-10K radio not 16K radio)

if Icom brings out a IC-7751 based on the new 7851 for about 5-6K improve on IMD it would be a tempting model.

I would not be surprised if in 2016 you see the 7751 replacing the old 7700

 

[prcguy]

The IC-7851 appears to be an upgraded version of the 7800 but I suspect there are at least several radios that will outperform it for a fraction of the cost. I've briefly played with a 7800 and its very nice, but for that kind of money it better be on the very top of the performance list, which its far from.

I know there is more to a radio than ultimate performance like heft and quality but the Hiberling PT8000 series is in a similar price range as the Icom IC-7851 and the Hiberling is built like the stuff we made at Hughes Aircraft, absolute top notch construction and components from a world class aerospace company.
The big Icoms are really nice, but not top notch US aerospace nice.

The low and mid range Icoms seem competitive with Yaesu and Kenwood but once you look beyond say the 7600 I think its best to look at other mfrs.
prcguy

Whats funny is the 7410 has better IMD specs than the more expensive IC-7600 with its lame 4fps spectrum display.

The ICOM lineup

IC-7200 (good value) Great starter radio for the price (800 bucks)
IC-7410 (great value)
IC-7600 (poor value)
IC-7700 (long in the tooth)
IC-7851 (Too expensive, it should be a 9-10K radio not 16K radio)

if Icom brings out a IC-7751 based on the new 7851 for about 5-6K improve on IMD it would be a tempting model.

I would not be surprised if in 2016 you see the 7751 replacing the old 7700

 

[AC9KH]

I have an IC-7200 and use it on USAF MARS, which is a little more disciplined than ham radio and has strict restrictions with no more than 3.0 kHz bandwidth usage on SSB. The IC-7200 meets the MARS requirements with ease with very good sounding audio. And has a pretty decent receiver to-boot. Some might consider the 7200 a "starter radio" but I consider it pretty fine primary rig for somebody who doesn't care about all the frills.

 

[prc117f]

I have an IC-7200 and use it on USAF MARS, which is a little more disciplined than ham radio and has strict restrictions with no more than 3.0 kHz bandwidth usage on SSB. The IC-7200 meets the MARS requirements with ease with very good sounding audio. And has a pretty decent receiver to-boot. Some might consider the 7200 a "starter radio" but I consider it pretty fine primary rig for somebody who doesn't care about all the frills.

Its a great radio. I own one. It is built like a tank and stable as heck with its 0.5 TXCO.

The radio is a great field day unit. I have used it quite a few times outside in humid hot condition in florida.

I would not do the same with the IC-7410

That said if you can swing it and dont need portability, field radio tough then the IC-7410 is a better unit I Great receiver and transmit, no frills but lots of nice features to make life easy.

my IC-7200 and 7410 are a nice pair, one for out and about use, the other for fixed operations.

 

[SCPD]

While the Icom 7600s I've heard all sound good, a friend recently got a Kenwood TS-590S and went through several mics and a lot of adjustments to make it sound decent and it still doesn't really good, just decent. I see there are many postings of how to set up transmit audio on a 590 and one of them is 28 pages long!

Actually I completely agree. I've never had the same transmit audio as my old ICOM 7600. I believe it is possible but it takes a lot of tweaking as you have implied.

(I'm actually using the FT-450d right now and it's more fun to use than the 590S in truth.)

With regards to the 7600 though, if you have never owned one then you really have no idea what you're talking about.

I've heard on air the 7600 and the pricey K3 and both sound very, very good. I don't recall hearing a 7800 on air before. The Flexradio also sounds quite good -- but I was told it there is some optimization involved.

The 7600 took very little time to set it up. Perhaps all of 15 minutes. I went with recommended settings (from the 7600 Yahoo Group) and it was pure joy from there. I used the ICOM SM-50 microphone -- which I received free on promotion at the time.

Remember, this was also Spring of 2010 -- not 2015.

 

[SCPD]

Whats funny is the 7410 has better IMD specs than the more expensive IC-7600 with its lame 4fps spectrum display.

The ICOM lineup

IC-7200 (good value) Great starter radio for the price (800 bucks)
IC-7410 (great value)
IC-7600 (poor value)
IC-7700 (long in the tooth)
IC-7851 (Too expensive, it should be a 9-10K radio not 16K radio)

if Icom brings out a IC-7751 based on the new 7851 for about 5-6K improve on IMD it would be a tempting model.

I would not be surprised if in 2016 you see the 7751 replacing the old 7700

This is not a fair list. You're comparing models from 2008 to 2015. The 7600/7700 are still excellent radios and are a joy to use. Yes, they're not the best value for one's wallet but that depends on how you define it.

Remember, the 7200 and 7410 do not have the same hardware as the higher-end units. The 7410 requires $200 in extra filters. The 7410 is really around $1900 if you go with the SM-50 microphone. (The stock microphones are worthless.)

I suspect the Japanese economy had something to do with the lack of new models.

 

[prc117f]

This is not a fair list. You're comparing models from 2008 to 2015. The 7600/7700 are still excellent radios and are a joy to use. Yes, they're not the best value for one's wallet but that depends on how you define it.

Remember, the 7200 and 7410 do not have the same hardware as the higher-end units. The 7410 requires $200 in extra filters. The 7410 is really around $1900 if you go with the SM-50 microphone. (The stock microphones are worthless.)

I suspect the Japanese economy had something to do with the lack of new models.

Also the declining hobby as well. How many millenials do you hear on ham radio or attending the clubs. Sales have to be dropping so they need to amortize the R&D over longer periods of time.

The 7410 can be had for 1375 adding the 2 filters makes it 1575 which is still a nice unit for the price.

I suspect in the next 10 years you are gonna see some ham equipment manufacturers disappearing from the market place.

 

[treborx]

I tried hard to find one of those $795.95 7200s. They are not in stock anywhere. HRO told me that a supplier for a component went out of business, and so iCom is working to have another vendor make the needed parts. He said don't expect more before September.

I bought a used one yesterday so I could have it now.

 

[prc117f]

I tried hard to find one of those $795.95 7200s. They are not in stock anywhere. HRO told me that a supplier for a component went out of business, and so iCom is working to have another vendor make the needed parts. He said don't expect more before September.

I bought a used one yesterday so I could have it now.

Its a great radio. for 800 dollars it is a really good value. I have made extensive use of it outdoors in humid hot conditions and it is a rock solid radio.

I wonder what part is the issue.

 

[treborx]

One on eBay now for $750 with the desk mic. He is selling it as "new" (which eBay means never opened box), but it was photographed outside the box and he said that he tested it. That should be marked used or possibly "new other" if it was just bench tested.

Then again, I would buy it right now if I didn't have one.

 

[N8OHU]

Also the declining hobby as well. How many millenials do you hear on ham radio or attending the clubs. Sales have to be dropping so they need to amortize the R&D over longer periods of time.

The 7410 can be had for 1375 adding the 2 filters makes it 1575 which is still a nice unit for the price.

I suspect in the next 10 years you are gonna see some ham equipment manufacturers disappearing from the market place.

The millennials are on the radio, but not on voice; lots of them are experimentally minded so that's where they are.