ICE/CBP/HSI frequencies in use in ATX/Central Texas?

[Project25_MASTR]

**DISCLAMER** Could be BullSnart but...I heard from a guy who heard from a guy who works for CBP that they are using a lot of Motorola Wave stuff with traditional LMR backups where systems exist that support a gateway between Wave and with the LMR system.

It theoretically makes sense, the Wave stuff can be operated on a cell phone, or dedicated device if the agent prefers that, it would work nationwide without the need for tons of different frequencies or trunked systems. Unless a gateway exists between LMR and the Wave TG it's completely secure because it uses LTE as apposed to LMR frequencies.

It is many layers removed from the source so this information that was given to me could be all false.

Okay…it's not like the ability to patch via critical connect isn't there. You'd actually be surprised how much of this currently exists as realistically SmartConnect is just an extension of Critical Connect…which already has Wave PTX gateways in place.

https://www.dps.texas.gov/sites/def...iod/interop/docs/02-tiris-technical-upate.pdf

 

[billpritjr]

**DISCLAMER** Could be BullSnart but...I heard from a guy who heard from a guy who works for CBP that they are using a lot of Motorola Wave stuff with traditional LMR backups where systems exist that support a gateway between Wave and with the LMR system.

It theoretically makes sense, the Wave stuff can be operated on a cell phone, or dedicated device if the agent prefers that, it would work nationwide without the need for tons of different frequencies or trunked systems. Unless a gateway exists between LMR and the Wave TG it's completely secure because it uses LTE as apposed to LMR frequencies.

It is many layers removed from the source so this information that was given to me could be all false.

Your guy who knows a guy is correct.

See my post #18 above.

 

[BrokenCircuit]

I was told by an EMS director that WAVE is the new TRS of the industry. He was saying there is a HUGE wave system in many metro areas in Texas with many users/Agencies that don't even use conventional radio anymore. And considering you can access the WAVE system via cellphone OR radio, and why not? If its there, use it!

 

[cferguson4809]

I was told by an EMS director that WAVE is the new TRS of the industry. He was saying there is a HUGE wave system in many metro areas in Texas with many users/Agencies that don't even use conventional radio anymore. And considering you can access the WAVE system via cellphone OR radio, and why not? If its there, use it!

I’m a system user and the lead tech for my agency, so I serve as the liaison with the county radio shop and have had several discussions on this topic.

The issue right now is a perception—possibly incorrect—that WAVE relies on commercially available LTE services (AT&T, Verizon, etc.). Based on my conversations with the director of the radio shop at our Office of Emergency Management, they’re open to making the switch once dedicated public safety LTE infrastructure is in place.

Currently, the only dedicated public safety LTE network in development in our area is LCRA. However, OEM’s view of the LCRA system is that it's "a commercial network pretending to be a public safety network," so trust in it is very limited.

TL;DR: You’re probably right, but people don’t fully understand or trust the system yet.

Edit to Add: I am aware that AT&T's FirstNET is a "dedicated" public safety system, however in my discussions with OEM they still don't trust it for mission critical communication due to the fact that it is a commercial network with public safety preemption. Thus leading to a lack of trust.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I was told by an EMS director that WAVE is the new TRS of the industry. He was saying there is a HUGE wave system in many metro areas in Texas with many users/Agencies that don't even use conventional radio anymore. And considering you can access the WAVE system via cellphone OR radio, and why not? If its there, use it!

Something just isn't jiving with that statement. While we are seeing many of the contract EMS services switch to PoC solutions (AMR, Acadian, Sacred Cross, hospital districts, etc) switch, the groups that were traditionally running their own systems or paying for airtime on local SMR systems (i.e. not on the big P25 systems), nearly all of the local/municipal services are remaining on LMR for various reason.

WAVE is not a new thing...it's been around since 2011/2012 and it's had various tie-ins over the years to TRBO and Astro 25 solutions. That being said, only radios which have unlocked Android functionality can currently use it. What a lot of Motorola users are adopting is what's called SmartConnect. SmartConnect is native to the Motorola Astro 25 system and works by essentially encapsulating the P25 OTA data and sending it via IP instead of LMR. Still requires the radio to be keyloaded if using encryption and the options we have to use SmartConnect are either not to use it or to prefer LMR and failover to SmartConnect if you go out of range on LMR. I think currently, WAVE has to integrate via Critical Connect. Now those integrations are in place on the three major Motorola systems in Texas, but it's an additional piece and you have to map the WAVE talkgroup to the system where SmartConnect is a 1:1 integration, the TGID and SUID are one and the same on both sides.

Another thing we've been seeing is LTE simply isn't a replacement for LMR when it comes to first responders. Sure it works well for second and third responders but the technology works best (in mission critical voice applications) when it is used to supplement LMR. For example, one of the things we are really loving SmartConnect for right now is as an alternative to BDA/DAS systems for in-building applications.

 

[BrokenCircuit]

Something just isn't jiving with that statement. While we are seeing many of the contract EMS services switch to PoC solutions (AMR, Acadian, Sacred Cross, hospital districts, etc) switch, the groups that were traditionally running their own systems or paying for airtime on local SMR systems (i.e. not on the big P25 systems), nearly all of the local/municipal services are remaining on LMR for various reason.

WAVE is not a new thing...it's been around since 2011/2012 and it's had various tie-ins over the years to TRBO and Astro 25 solutions. That being said, only radios which have unlocked Android functionality can currently use it. What a lot of Motorola users are adopting is what's called SmartConnect. SmartConnect is native to the Motorola Astro 25 system and works by essentially encapsulating the P25 OTA data and sending it via IP instead of LMR. Still requires the radio to be keyloaded if using encryption and the options we have to use SmartConnect are either not to use it or to prefer LMR and failover to SmartConnect if you go out of range on LMR. I think currently, WAVE has to integrate via Critical Connect. Now those integrations are in place on the three major Motorola systems in Texas, but it's an additional piece and you have to map the WAVE talkgroup to the system where SmartConnect is a 1:1 integration, the TGID and SUID are one and the same on both sides.

Another thing we've been seeing is LTE simply isn't a replacement for LMR when it comes to first responders. Sure it works well for second and third responders but the technology works best (in mission critical voice applications) when it is used to supplement LMR. For example, one of the things we are really loving SmartConnect for right now is as an alternative to BDA/DAS systems for in-building applications.

I'm not a network engineer, not a dispatcher and don't make money off the radio telecommunication industry. I spend 6 hours a day 3 days a week around Paramedics who seems to hover over me trying to listen to what I am listening to that day. I know enough about PoC to make a bad amazon purchase of the stuff. I just brought what some of those folks yabber about. I'll suggest to them though to join RR and they then can elaborate more. Me, I'm just a citizen with a few scanners and a broken 1990's computer doing home hospice waiting to get off this planet.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

Something just isn't jiving with that statement. While we are seeing many of the contract EMS services switch to PoC solutions (AMR, Acadian, Sacred Cross, hospital districts, etc) switch, the groups that were traditionally running their own systems or paying for airtime on local SMR systems (i.e. not on the big P25 systems), nearly all of the local/municipal services are remaining on LMR for various reason.

WAVE is not a new thing...it's been around since 2011/2012 and it's had various tie-ins over the years to TRBO and Astro 25 solutions. That being said, only radios which have unlocked Android functionality can currently use it. What a lot of Motorola users are adopting is what's called SmartConnect. SmartConnect is native to the Motorola Astro 25 system and works by essentially encapsulating the P25 OTA data and sending it via IP instead of LMR. Still requires the radio to be keyloaded if using encryption and the options we have to use SmartConnect are either not to use it or to prefer LMR and failover to SmartConnect if you go out of range on LMR. I think currently, WAVE has to integrate via Critical Connect. Now those integrations are in place on the three major Motorola systems in Texas, but it's an additional piece and you have to map the WAVE talkgroup to the system where SmartConnect is a 1:1 integration, the TGID and SUID are one and the same on both sides.

Another thing we've been seeing is LTE simply isn't a replacement for LMR when it comes to first responders. Sure it works well for second and third responders but the technology works best (in mission critical voice applications) when it is used to supplement LMR. For example, one of the things we are really loving SmartConnect for right now is as an alternative to BDA/DAS systems for in-building applications.

Houston has had a major ESD EMS service on BeON for a few years now. They have mutlple cell carriers and the dispatch center has mutliple ISPs including StarLink. They do have the ability to go to the LMR systems, but they hardly ever do. There are a few others in the area that are looking at their model. They have had some growing pains, but the hospitals got on board and gave them a public safety SSID for them to roam on in the buildings. This saved them tons of DAS money too. We once did a test in the air on a United flight and the dispatcher was floored our traffic was coming from 36,000' on in-flight wifi. Would I trust BoInGo for mission critical? nope. But getting an IP connection reliabily is trivial these days.

I think its still in its infancy, but PTT over IP is becoming very viable. I say PTT over IP to not just limit it to cellular carriers, but any IP transport including municipal owned data networks. The days of big iron LMR systems being in the multi-hundreds of millions of dollars are going to be hard for IT folks (which as we know have now absorbed LMR) to swallow.