ICOM R-8600 or not - That is the question!

[TailGator911]

I love my R8600 but recently discovered, after some comparison testing on an SDR virtual radio site, that I am not realizing the full potential of this radio with my 40ft end-fed PAR wire antenna. I purchased a W6LVP amplified magnetic loop antenna just before I left on vacation and plan to install it upon my return, and I'm going to add another 40ft or so to the PAR, as well as install a 100ft random wire around the house under my drain spouting just for poops n' 'giggles. (a friend did this with insulator standoffs and swears by it) So, in effect, I will have 3 new HF antennas for my dynamic duo HF receivers (R8600/R75) before the winter sets in. I have a feeling I will have a whole new respect for the Icom R8600. I think it is a fantastic radio with just the PAR now, I can only imagine what it will be once I upgrade my antenna system!

JD
kf4anc

 

[vince48]

Keep us informed of the results

 

[iMONITOR]

If you want just a scanner for public service, there are better options, at a fraction the price. If you want just an HF radio there are options almost as good, even some as good, for a bit less. If you want Mil or Civ air there are options just as good, for a bit less cost.

But if you want all of these capabilities in one box, there is no better option, even at this cost. In fact, selecting individual receivers and getting all roughly the same capability combined might not be any cheaper.

The 8600 is not perfect. It lacks a couple digital modes I would gladly pay a small premium for, if necessary. Why in the world can’t you mirror the display on an external monitor? And where is a second VFO? But really, I am quite pleased with having gotten the R8600, and I have no buyers remorse about it at all, I would make the same decision today without a second though.

T!

While the IC-R8600 is an excellent communications receiver it makes a poor scanner. It doesn't do trunking and it doesn't play well with RR's database, location based scanning or GPS.

 

[ka3jjz]

Location based scanning and GPS control are, I think, exclusively Uniden apps, so you can't expect them on an Icom product (not without Icom shelling out some big bucks, for sure). There are no wideband radios that are trunktrackers, so how you would expect this is difficult to understand and again, trunking is pretty much sown up by Uniden or Whistler. But, I agree, even so it would be nice if the software were RR compatible, even if it ignored the trunking. Perhaps Gommert could be convinced...(heh)

I could see the confusion, though, since it does decode Phase 1 - but one must keep in mind that's a digital protocol, nothing to do with trunking.

 

[iMONITOR]

Location based scanning and GPS control are, I think, exclusively Uniden apps, so you can't expect them on an Icom product (not without Icom shelling out some big bucks, for sure). There are no wideband radios that are trunktrackers, so how you would expect this is difficult to understand and again, trunking is pretty much sown up by Uniden or Whistler. But, I agree, even so it would be nice if the software were RR compatible, even if it ignored the trunking. Perhaps Gommert could be convinced...(heh)

I could see the confusion, though, since it does decode Phase 1 - but one must keep in mind that's a digital protocol, nothing to do with trunking.

I never said I'd expected ICOM to do location based/GPS scanning or trunking. I didn't have difficulty understanding anything we're discussing here. No confusion on my part, I was merely pointing out these shortcomings for anyone expecting to use an IC-R8600 as a scanner, as some do.

 

[cherubim]

Well for me it's a big not.

The high price plus Icom's arrogance in not including DMR support are just two big deal breakers for me.

I've also found Icom gear lacking in important functionality and performance, eg. The R75 had terrible audio, a high noise floor, pathetic sync detector and a lack of mid range filters. The IC-706 had a lousy front-end and would randomly lock up when transmitting. Things may have improved a bit but I still maintain that Icom pales in comparison to Kenwood and even Yaesu gear.

 

[prcguy]

Hey, your preferred company Yaesu is the distributor of the AR-DV10 HF/VHF/UHF receiver and I think its a better fit for you. Let us know how that works out.

Well for me it's a big not.

The high price plus Icom's arrogance in not including DMR support are just two big deal breakers for me.

I've also found Icom gear lacking in important functionality and performance, eg. The R75 had terrible audio, a high noise floor, pathetic sync detector and a lack of mid range filters. The IC-706 had a lousy front-end and would randomly lock up when transmitting. Things may have improved a bit but I still maintain that Icom pales in comparison to Kenwood and even Yaesu gear.

 

[kruser]

Well for me it's a big not.

The high price plus Icom's arrogance in not including DMR support are just two big deal breakers for me.

I've also found Icom gear lacking in important functionality and performance, eg. The R75 had terrible audio, a high noise floor, pathetic sync detector and a lack of mid range filters. The IC-706 had a lousy front-end and would randomly lock up when transmitting. Things may have improved a bit but I still maintain that Icom pales in comparison to Kenwood and even Yaesu gear.

I agree about the lack of the popular DMR mode with the R8600. That does seem like a poor decision even though Icom never had anything to do with DMR at all. For such a nice receiver as the R8600, you would think Icom may have changed their stance a bit.
I also think no matter what you like or don't like, there will always be something you like better on/in another manufacturer's radio no matter your brand of choice. That's just the nature of the beast.

When you look at the realtime performance reviews of Icom's IC-R8600, Rob Sherwood pretty much gives it a top of the line rating compared to only the best of the best when it comes to performance. When you look at the R8600s cost compared to other radios that are near the performance level of the R8600, the cost of the 8600 really can't be beat. Not even close in many cases.

If there were a way to compare features, I'd agree that other manufacturers may or do have better desired features in some areas. For myself, the lack of DMR is probably the only feature I truly miss with my R8600s. I own two of them.
Being able to decode a P25 TDMA signal conventionally will also be missed if they can't include that Phase 2 mode as it becomes more popular across the country.
It's very possible the missing DMR modes and TDMA P25 could both be added via a firmware update as the hardware to decode both appears to be in the radio. It will be interesting to see if Icom gives in with DMR support though.

For HF modes, the R8600 does fantastic and equals or again, beats the competition when looking at Rob Sherwood's performance test results.

Receiver Test Data

The R8600 is still sitting in 3rd place.

In my eyes, the value of the R8600 is fantastic when you compare its cost with the cost of other manufacturers similarly featured models.

 

[kb6hlm]

Anyone expecting the Icom 8600 or any modern SDR type radio to out perform a old analog radio on low bands will be very disappointed !!

Don't get me wrong I love the new modern take on rigs theses days like IE: spectrum display /IF Out/decoders/ and all the other cool stuff to look at and play with
The Icom8600 is fun to play with but so is a Lamborghini! do you need one?? well If you can afford it sure why not?

To be fair the rig sounds much better then a cheap SDR as the audio is processed by the rig and not the PC However when you run programs like HDSDR or others using the IQ (You just turned your $2300 rig into a Cheap junk $20 SDR ) Don't do that !

Instead Use the IF 10.7Mhz out for spectrum display and 12.0 Khz or 10.7Mhz out for Decoding this works great for programs like SDR#/ HDSDR Ham Radio Deluxe/ CSVUserlistBrowser and others

For those of you that have not figured it out yet Use CI-V CT-17 Cat Cable For ICOM Radio not the USB port as that will not allow you to remote control your radio without it locking into that dam IQ mode
I use this one
(bestkong CI-V CT-17 Cat Cable) I found On Amazon it will allow your PC to have full control without locking your rig up and your audio !

Anyway.... back to my opinion well am I happy with it, (Yes) was it worth the money?? well.................. its a BIG chunk of $$$$ for a toy with a lot of bells and whistles ,Did I need it ? (NOPE) as I have a lot of radios that can tune to the same thing and the $20 SDR can decode everything the Icom8600 can, But hey its a Lamborghini Baby ! so ya for me ill say (YES)

Now far as the stuff you guys are talking about ( sensitivity ) on the( Low Bands) I just always find it funny how people try to compare a SDR like the ICOM8600 to a real radio sorry to say it but that just cant be done ! here is just one example I have a have a old kenwood 440 made way back in the 80s and it even has better sensitivity then the Icom and much better audio quality ! I know it sounds crazy but its true old analog radios just sound better then the New SDR type rigs no mater how you use all the gimmicks that comes with them the Sound quality is just not up to par with real radios !! who knows maybe someday ??

Now for VHF/UHF that's another story and I have found the audio quality quite good and better then most rigs and the sensitivity will blow away any SDR/Scanner out there ! You will hear signals that don't even exist on a Scanner radio

The only thing I found disappointing was the lack of DMR decoding however it will work fine using a PC base decoder just use the VSC so you don't hear that awful noise coming out of your speakers

Now I see some of you don't think it will trunk scan ? your wrong it will trunk just fine using PC software however for the life of me I cant get it to decode P25 simulcast on its own However I did get DSDPlus to decode it from the IF 10.7 MHz out
but that s a bit chunky and tying up a $2300 radio to do that is just silly ! LOL

Bottom line if you can afford a expense toy sure why not? but if you just want a receiver you can pickup a cheap used one on ebay and if you need the IF OUT just modify it not hard to do theses days


73s

 

[N1FKO]

For those of you that have not figured it out yet Use CI-V CT-17 Cat Cable For ICOM Radio not the USB port as that will not allow you to remote control your radio without it locking into that dam IQ mode

The IC-R8600 has three USB ports, only one is used for I/Q data. The others can be used for audio and CI-V operation without interfering with the normal operation of the receiver.

 

[prcguy]

Apparently you have not used a new high end SDR, they greatly can outperform older analog radios on low bands by a huge amount. I've owned lots of high end "premium grade" analog receivers like the Harris RF-590,RF-590A, Collins R-390 and 390A, and others from Cubic and Racal. My Icom R8600 easily out performs them all and so does my Elecraft K3. I'm talking outperforming by receiving weak little stations a few KHz away from 20 over S9 signals or digging out weak signals other radios cannot. I'm not even considering features yet, just raw high end performance.

The only possible way you could make a statement like that is if you have no experience with modern SDRs or high end analog receivers. Please tell us what you have compared an Icom R8600 with and how you came to that conclusion.

Anyone expecting the Icom 8600 or any modern SDR type radio to out perform a old analog radio on low bands will be very disappointed !!

 

[ridgescan]

Per the negative comments on the R75; S-AM is indeed a joke. But I found a way to use it without that "pop" thing by reducing RFgain just enough to eliminate the pop but still keep S-AM in play...sort of a balancing act. The "noise" thing? I got rid of the AD55A brick and run the R75 on a strict 13.8v linear power supply. The "audio"? I run it either on one of my spare center channel external speakers or for big, tailored audio I run it through the A/V system in the living room. With these two options audio is a non-issue as the R75 actually has great audio, given a better speaker than that anemic little one it has.
I enjoy music on shortwave every single evening through the R75 pumping through my A/V system with 5 speakers/sub. Filtration is top-notch in this rig when combined with RFgain riding and PBTs.

Far as the R8600 on HF, to enjoy HF broadcasts one really needs to understand just what this rig has to refine the hell out of shortwave signals, and it has a LOT. I can take a crappy shortwave broadcast signal and make it totally comfortable to listen to with fantastic audio via the basic bass/treble controls, by switching between the S-AMd, S-AM upper, and S-AM lower depending upon which fits the BC signal best. I can then work the PBTs against those modes, add the NR maybe to 3. Not to forget reducing the RFgain a bit as well. All this and even more I didn't mention can return quite a respectable listening experience.

After saying all this though, I gotta admit that putting the same shortwave BC on the old SX-88...that old anchor can almost put even the R8600 to shame just with its warm tube audio on bass-boost

 

[vagrant]

Wow, over 15 exclamation points in that post. Was there a sale on them somewhere? I'm punctuation poor.

Hey prcguy, you can stalk my posts and correct or question me when I'm wrong. I appreciate the education you and a select few others provide on these forums. Your note about transmitting 50W 100 kHz away almost had me throw my wallet at Gigaparts for the R8600. What did the waterfall look like when you did that?

 

[prcguy]

Here is a pic of a distant repeater being received on the R8600 on 146.385MHz, then the same repeater with me transmitting @100W and 100KHz higher in frequency with the antennas about 40ft apart and at the exact same height. The S meter reading of the received station goes from S9 down to about S6 when I transmit with 100W, but the copied audio on the R8600 is unaffected. The noise floor on the R8600 is raised partially from the broad band noise from the transmitter and some from IMD created in the R8600, but it just keeps on receiving. You can see a distinctive IMD pattern either side of my transmit signal that continues throughout the band. No other radio I've seen will receive like this in the presence of a large transmitter without folding up in the corner.

BTW, the 100W transmitter is an Icom IC9700. Sorry Glenn, Yaesu or Kenwood doesn't make anything with that much power or performance and probably never will.

The receive antenna is an Astron military contract Discone with preamp bypassed and the transmit antenna is a Comet GP9N with maybe 5dBd or 7.14dBi gain, so with cable loss, EIRP would be in the 400W range. Looking at the spectral display there are lots of other moderate level signals that I can easily receive and much closer than 100KHz away when transmitting.

Now that I have an EIRP number think about this again. A good 400W EIRP only 40ft from the receiving antenna and only 100KHz away from where I'm receiving and its not having that bad of an effect on my receive signal. BTW, thanks to a couple of guys for sticking up for my posts here, but I really think the radio in question speaks for itself.

Update!!!!!
I goofed and the spacing is 1MHz, not 100KHz in this test, sorry, I must have been rushing things. Let me do this again at 100KHz spacing. Might be tomorrow as its getting late. Its still impressive, even at 1MHz spacing.

Wow, over 15 exclamation points in that post. Was there a sale on them somewhere? I'm punctuation poor.

Hey prcguy, you can stalk my posts and correct or question me when I'm wrong. I appreciate the education you and a select few others provide on these forums. Your note about transmitting 50W 100 kHz away almost had me throw my wallet at Gigaparts for the R8600. What did the waterfall look like when you did that?

 

[kb6hlm]

Anyway................ with that out of the way


N1FKO
Did you ever get HRD to connect to one of those USB ports without using the remote jack ?

Just Curious

Thanks


"just say no to bully's"

 

[prcguy]

Hmm, apparently I missed the part where he does have an R8600. I apologize for the harsh comment on using one before posting about it. My other comments still stand.

Apparently you don't know how to read ?

 

[prcguy]

Here is the 100KHz test again under the same conditions I reported some time ago when transmitting at 50W which vagrant asked about. Two friends are conversing on 146.520MHz and I transmitted at 50 watts or approximately 200W EIRP on 146.620MHz only 40ft away from the Discone feeding the Icom R8600. I could still hear the .52 conversation just fine.

Here is a 146.520 signal without me transmitting.




Here is the same 146.520 signal with me transmitting at 50W only 100KHz away. It was 100KHz this time, no mistakes. Transmit antenna is a Comet GP-9N.

 

[N1FKO]

N1FKO
Did you ever get HRD to connect to one of those USB ports without using the remote jack ?

I can't speak to Ham Radio Deluxe, but other software works fine with USB-equipped ICOM radios. The USB interface presents audio and two USB-to-serial interfaces - if one doesn't work, try the other.

 

[vagrant]

Thank you for that prcguy. Even the 1 MHz images are helpful, but that 100 kHz is something else, considering your TX/RX RF environment/setup. I have RFI issues here, beyond my own self imposed transmissions, and a quality receiver like that will go a long way. It encourages me to sell the radios I no longer use rather than buying more and never selling. ha! (When I go my local radio club will get everything to sell or use anyways.)

 

[Gatorman]

Great thread. I just checked in. Looking at the 8600. I have a variety of HF receivers. Most interested in VHF/UHF, especially UHF/VHF airband. I have outdoor antennas, 65', somewhat concerned about reported lack of sensitivity on these bands.

Thanks much.