IDEN Standard

[hotdjdave]

FRS Heard About 4 Miles Away

I heard a guy today on an FRS radio. I live in a suburb in Los Angeles (San Fernando Valley). The position the guy gave on his radio to his buddy was up in a canyon about 4 or 5 miles from my house. I couldn't hear the other person with whom he was talking.

It was definitely an FRS radio - right frequency and I heard that "roger beep" those radios make each time he spoke.

Here is the MapQuest page to approximately where he was: http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.ad...a&state=CA&zipcode=91356&country=US&geodiff=1

My location was approximately 4.5 miles NNE of there.

I was listening on my Uniden BCD-396T.

 

[JGP]

Joel,

I understand your request and your intent. What you are missing is what is not scannable by you may well be scannable by someone else. So no, we cannot say what is and what is not scannable in the DB. You as the equipment owner are responsible for knowing what your equipment is capable of.

Let me provide examples that may prove to be instructive. Restricting my examples to trunking only, if you were a RS Pro-90 / Uniden BC235XLT owner (same radio, different printing) then you would be incapable of scanning any system that is not a Motorola Type I or Type II system. Too extreme? Try this, say you owned a Pro-96 (or 2096), based on your request we would have to mark all LTR systems as unscannable. I hope I am getting the idea across. Basically I am trying to say that we as DB managers have no idea what you as a user have in your hand. By definition all systems are scannable, because if they weren't, they would not exist; it is just a matter of what you have in your hand as to whether you as an individual can monitor them.

Lou,

You gave a good, clear answer, and I get the idea. It helps to understand how this site works. I never get too old to learn something.

Joel

 

[loumaag]

people that are programming actual radios should have a better source of information than this site.

Gill,

Consider the hobbyist in say Albuquerque or San Antonio with the PV capable LPE in hand. Neither of those system managers are very forthcoming with data for the hobbyist. Yes, I understand that people working for an agency on the system may not have a need, but that does not encompass everyone who has a desire for the information.

 

[n4voxgill]

Before I retired I managed two TRS. As a system manager I didn't want anyone programing a radio on the system except my shop. We were on the constant lookout for persons getting programing done outside our shop.

This was in Florida and now it is a felony to transmit on a frequency you are not authorized on. So if someone gets a radio programed and it keys up to affiliate they have just committed a felony.

 

[hotdjdave]

Felony!!!!

This was in Florida and now it is a felony to transmit on a frequency you are not authorized on. So if someone gets a radio programed and it keys up to affiliate they have just committed a felony.

WOW! Imagine going to state prison for a year or more, paying a fine of at least $1,000.00, never being able to own a gun again, never being able to vote again, having the stain of a felony record, and all the other bad things that come with being a felon - all for keying up on a radio. I would like to read the legislative intent for this law.

My opinion:

Felony ("High Crime") is too stiff a charge for a crime that is not violent or has no real victims.

Felony charges are to be reserved for the most heinous crimes (e.g. rape, grand theft, battery, assault with a deadly weapon, child molestation, hit and run while driving under the influence (alcohol or drugs), murder, you get the point). That is why there is the classification of misdemeanor between felony and infraction.

Now some may argue that there is a victim. I mean that there was someone who felt fear or was the victim of violence or loss of real property. Someone keying up on a radio is by no means causing such a loss to warrant a felony.

It should be an infraction for the first offence, misdemeanor for the second offence, and a high-class misdemeanor for any subsequent offences.

We have some lame laws here in California, also. It is a felony (grand theft) to steal an avocado off of a farm/grove, as well as a number of other produce items and farm animals (regardless of the value). Being that California is the largest produce exporting state in the union, the legislators (lobbyists) felt they had to protect their assets.

 

[Al42]

people that are programming actual radios should have a better source of information than this site.

:lol: I am guessing you have never worked as a volunteer.

And I'm guessing you never read the applicable laws. Being a volunteer doesn't exempt you from them.

 

[hotdjdave]

Volunteers Need RR, Too

And I'm guessing you never read the applicable laws. Being a volunteer doesn't exempt you from them.

How is there a law involved in getting information from a radio tech to program a radio? I never said the information had to be specific to that techs agency or to that techs frequencies. Maybe the tech has info on just how to program a certain radio that is common to both.

I was merely trying to defend this website in the fact that some people may come here to find out information about how to program a radio or to get frequencies for a radio to use as a volunteer. I know that many volunteers have to buy and maintain their own equipment (authorized) - that is the gist of what my comment was, having been a volunteer myself and working with volunteers as a professional. The use of that radio should not be of concern as we are not here to judge (are we?), but rather provide and discuss information about radio communications. The web site is called RadioReference, not ScannerReference.

An example of volunteers who buy their own radio equipment: CEMP (search and rescue and communications volunteers for the Los Angeles Police Department). They are fully authorized to utilize radio communications for the City, but receive no equipment or funding from any agency. The large communications equipment is donated or obtained by fund raising. Small equipment, such as mobiles and HTs, is normally purchased or already owned by the individual volunteers. I could see a volunteer from this organization benefiting from this web site.
See this article: http://www.lapdonline.org/devonshire_community_police_station/content_basic_view/9051

Maybe I was not explaining myself properly, sorry for that. :wink:

 

[loumaag]

Before I retired I managed two TRS. As a system manager I didn't want anyone programing a radio on the system except my shop. We were on the constant lookout for persons getting programing done outside our shop.

Ergo, you (as a systems manager) did not provide information to the hobbyist. Hence the reason for this site. Thank you for validating my explanation. As for being "on the constant lookout", when you found someone what could you do? Nothing, as long as they were not the cause of interference on your system.

This was in Florida and now it is a felony to transmit on a frequency you are not authorized on. So if someone gets a radio programed and it keys up to affiliate they have just committed a felony.

Not only do I not have a problem with this (except the standard argument that it is not the state's purview but the federal government) but I agree that anyone found transmitting on frequencies not assigned to them or allowed under federal law (really the only law that is applicable) should be punished. That said, what does that have to do with programming a radio on the system as long as it does not transmit. And don't tell me that it has to transmit, because you would be exposing your ignorance. Remember also, the specific example I was using was a ProVoice LPE being programmed to monitor a ProVoice EDACS system. Affiliation is not necessary to monitor a system; regular radios, just like scanners, can be manually directed to follow a certain control channel, indeed a set of control channels with no communication to the system to detect a CC, indeed with the entire final RF deck disabled.

 

[hotdjdave]

Certain Cases

And I'm guessing you never read the applicable laws.

This was in Florida and now it is a felony to transmit on a frequency you are not authorized on. So if someone gets a radio programed and it keys up to affiliate they have just committed a felony.

BTW, don't get me wrong. I think it is wrong to transmit on a radio system that does not belong to you or on which you are not authorized. This infraction of the law should be classified as tort and/or infraction, and subsequently a misdemeanor. I just don't think it is that grievous an offense to be classified a felony to simply transmit on radio system without authorization.

Under certain circumstances, I could see where it might be upgraded to a felony; such as, the transmission of communications caused interference that resulted in bodily injury to a person or loss of life, or while in the commission of a crime to intentionally interfere with law enforcement efforts. However, in those cases, a different and separate law should exist.

As for programming frequencies into a radio, I am with Lindsay. That is exactly the point I was trying to make. A person may need to go elsewhere to get info to program a radio other that an agency's radio tech; hence, RadioReference.com.

What does this have to do with IDEN STANDARD? I have know idea...how did we get to this point of the legalities of programming radios?

 

[loumaag]

...What does this have to do with IDEN STANDARD? I have know idea...how did we get to this point of the legalities of programming radios?

Hmm, good point, even I got sucked into that off topic branch. Okay, I think I covered why we don't put "unscannable" on systems. So back on topic now. :wink: