Illegal Scanners!!

[JethrowJohnson]

That's what I thought until I read a little more. They changed the definition of "high frequency" to suit their purposes.


"SECTION 7. That definitions as used in this Act are as follows:

(a) High Frequency Police Radio Receiving Set. A high frequency police radio receiving set shall be any radio receiving set capable of receiving any message sent out by any police radio station."

And why would they call it a "police radio station". Makes it almost sound like they thought it's just like a commercial FM radio. 🤦‍♂️ Government just needs to learn to start keeping their nose on their own face as a teacher I had used to say.

 

[KK4JUG]

And why would they call it a "police radio station". Makes it almost sound like they thought it's just like a commercial FM radio. 🤦‍♂️ Government just needs to learn to start keeping their nose on their own face as a teacher I had used to say.

You do understand that logic has never been held in high esteem in the government sector which means your question probab;y doesn't have an answer.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

You do understand that logic has never been held in high esteem in the government sector which means your question probab;y doesn't have an answer.

Exactly my point. They need to just mind their own business bc they don't even know what they're talking about anyway.

 

[nd5y]

And why would they call it a "police radio station". Makes it almost sound like they thought it's just like a commercial FM radio.

They used the FCC's own definition of "station".

 

[wa8pyr]

And why would they call it a "police radio station". Makes it almost sound like they thought it's just like a commercial FM radio.

Because that's almost what it was (although on medium wave). Back when police radio first got started, the transmitters used AM in the 1700 kHz range, just above the AM broadcast band, and could be received on many broadcast receiving sets of the day.

It was one-way only; the RTO (radio telephone operator) would simply get on the air and announce "Car 54, go to 123 Any Street, investigate woman screaming" or whatever. Car 54 would receive it and head that way. If they needed additional information or assistance, they had to use a police call box on the street.

Typical early car radios only covered up to around 1600 kHz, so a prohibition against a receiving set that could receive a "police radio station" above that frequency was doable. The language "police radio station" just stuck over the years.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Because that's almost what it was (although on medium wave). Back when police radio first got started, the transmitters used AM in the 1700 kHz range, just above the AM broadcast band, and could be received on many broadcast receiving sets of the day.

It was one-way only; the RTO (radio telephone operator) would simply get on the air and announce "Car 54, go to 123 Any Street, investigate woman screaming" or whatever. Car 54 would receive it and head that way. If they needed additional information or assistance, they had to use a police call box on the street.

Typical early car radios only covered up to around 1600 kHz, so a prohibition against a receiving set that could receive a "police radio station" above that frequency was doable. The language "police radio station" just stuck over the years.

Oh okay. Sounds a bit outdated for 1960s but, I don't know. The 60s were about the time that they were getting even more advanced, wasn't it?

 

[wa8pyr]

Oh okay. Sounds a bit outdated for 1960s but, I don't know. The 60s were about the time that they were getting even more advanced, wasn't it?

Police radio first got started in the 1930s with the one-way broadcasts (although there were some earlier experiments). Two way didn't become common until after World War 2, but old attitudes and language hung on.

 

[W8HDU]

@wa8pyr ... I always thought it was interesting that Toledo, Ohio, (and other communities), had transmissions just above the AM Broadcast band in the 30s, and their call letters were like broadcast stations. Toledo was WPDQ.

 

[KK4JUG]

Back in the early 50s, our Crosley console radio had the "Police Band" on it. I never listened to it, though. I was more interested in Fibber McGee & Molly, The Green Hornet, Inner Sanctum etc.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

Back in the early 50s, our Crosley console radio had the "Police Band" on it. I never listened to it, though. I was more interested in Fibber McGee & Molly, The Green Hornet, Inner Sanctum etc.

My grandma said she used to have one of those.

 

[surfacemount]

Actually, technically high frequency (HF) radio is only 3-30 MHz by ITU definition (though often called "shortwave").

I wonder if that was accurate when 30 was as far as the cutting edge could take them? Also, the state then may have looked at the ITU similar to the NFPA, and didn't necessarily adopt it. Also, this was Tennessee, not known to be a mecca of tech in the 1930's-50's outside of some audio recording capacity.

And why would they call it a "police radio station". Makes it almost sound like they thought it's just like a commercial FM radio. 🤦‍♂️ Government just needs to learn to start keeping their nose on their own face as a teacher I had used to say.

Well, as covered, all emitters licensed under the FCC are considered to be stations. Even cell phones. Probably easier to visualize when 'stations' needed a ton of power and a tall aerial to sail by lol

I have a couple of Office of Civilian Defense radios that had 'police band' along with a few others, IIRC. In storage, anyway.

Be interesting to see court records and learn who the last person cited under that ordinance was.

 

[surfacemount]

@wa8pyr ... I always thought it was interesting that Toledo, Ohio, (and other communities), had transmissions just above the AM Broadcast band in the 30s, and their call letters were like broadcast stations. Toledo was WPDQ.

They still have them. Back in the day, they had to verbally announce. Now, with the advent of repeating systems... it goes out in Morse. One for my area is WNFF582, for instance

 

[JethrowJohnson]

They still have them. Back in the day, they had to verbally announce. Now, with the advent of repeating systems... it goes out in Morse. One for my area is WNFF582, for instance

Is that what the beeping noise is that I hear on some fire departments' analog frequencies? I didn't really think it was Morse code because it's only short beeps but no dashes, but I can't think of anything else it might be.

 

[mmckenna]

Is that what the beeping noise is that I hear on some fire departments' analog frequencies? I didn't really think it was Morse code because it's only short beeps but no dashes, but I can't think of anything else it might be.

That's probably an ID for the radio.

Usually the morse ID is sent from the repeater without a PL tone, so if you have your scanner set up with a PL/DPL tone on the receive side, you'll not hear it.

 

[JethrowJohnson]

That's probably an ID for the radio.

Usually the morse ID is sent from the repeater without a PL tone, so if you have your scanner set up with a PL/DPL tone on the receive side, you'll not hear it.

Yeah, that's what it is, because it beeps exactly 5 seconds after about 50% of transmissions, and it's transmitted on carrier squelch, so the firefighters don't hear it because they use 031 DCS code, and my BC75XLT doesn't have privacy codes so it receives the beeping, but my BCD436HP does have them so it ignores it just like their radios do.

 

[dlwtrunked]

I wonder if that was accurate when 30 was as far as the cutting edge could take them? Also, the state then may have looked at the ITU similar to the NFPA, and didn't necessarily adopt it. Also, this was Tennessee, not known to be a mecca of tech in the 1930's-50's outside of some audio ...

I am not surre what part "that" refers to. 3, 30, 300, etc. MHz were chosen by the ITU as the definition limits as those correspond to roughly wavelengths of 100, 10, 1, etc. meters due to the speed of light being roughly 3x 10^10 cm/s (it has been redefined to be exactly 2.99792458x10^1 cm/s by re-defining the meter to make that so. Then one just had to assign low, medium, high, etc. Most hams do not know that 160 meters is not HF.