I'm I'm hearing hearing an an echo echo

[KK5FM]

Has anyone else noticed that there is now an echo when monitoring, say, the Crescent site of DPS and the OKC site of DPS? (on different scanners, at the same time) I'm assuming it is because the OKC site has been upgraded perhaps with Quantars, while the other sites probably aren't. I know the Quantar I run on ham has an Echo even in analog, compared to other repeaters, which are not digital capable.
So now, if I monitor low-band, Crescent, and OKC at the same time, When the OKC Comm center gives out a general broadcast, (To OHP troopers,) I get stereo-stereo-stereo!

Disclaimer:

This message involves a scanner-related subject, which may or may not involve frequencies and/or talkgroups. It references a system in the OKC area. The abbreviation, OKC, refers to Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Additionally, Crescent is a city in the central Oklahoma area. DPS refers to the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety. Low-band refers to the Oklahoma DPS radio system that is statewide in the state of Oklahoma. which can be monitored by anyone, almost anywhere in the state, of Oklahoma, (Even Guymon, Oklahoma,) with a decent antenna. 44.70, 44.90, 45.22, 45.18
OHP is an abbreviation for Oklahoma Highway Patrol.

Also, there was a mention about a ham radio repeater. It was used for comparison purposes only, and the author in no way was attempting to subvert this forum with a discussion about ham radio. My excuse is that I can monitor this ham repeater, in the OKC area, (of Oklahoma,) on a scanner. A BCD996T will even allow me to monitor the digital part of this repeater. BCD996T's are nifty scanners. I give them 4-1/2 thumbs up.

2nd Disclaimer:

You shouldn't take the first disclaimer too seriously. Author claims attempt at humor. Copyright 2007 KK5FM. I've mailed myself a copy of this e-mail to make it legal. Using one of the new Oklahoma stamps.

3rd Disclaimer:

The scanners I am using were NOT manufactured in the State of Oklahoma. However, they WERE programmed using Oklahoma fingers. The computer that I use for programming some radios was hand-built within the borders of Oklahoma, using parts of foreign manufacture. Power provided by Oklahoma Gas and Electric. My Internet Service Provider is locally owned.

 

[N_Jay]

Has anyone else noticed that there is now an echo when monitoring, say, the Crescent site of DPS and the OKC site of DPS? (on different scanners, at the same time) I'm assuming it is because the OKC site has been upgraded perhaps with Quantars, while the other sites probably aren't. I know the Quantar I run on ham has an Echo even in analog, compared to other repeaters, which are not digital capable.
So now, if I monitor low-band, Crescent, and OKC at the same time, When the OKC Comm center gives out a general broadcast, (To OHP troopers,) I get stereo-stereo-stereo!

It is not an echo, it is a delay on some sites.

Stations with digital processing have a delay, even in analog operation.

Stations with different transport routing have different delays.

Even field equipment (with digital processing) adds delay to the audio heard.

 

[xerb1962]

I have noticed the "echo" for a couple of years now.
Given the multitude of pathways all these different systems are all linked, it is amazing it is not more pronounced!

 

[NeFire242]

When you say "echo" are you referring to hearing some sloppy simulcast, or the delay of the vocoder?

 

[KK5FM]

It's enough of a delay, or echo, to notice.

I don't presume to know enough about the system to say for sure what is causing it, only that it is there, and I noticed it to such a degree after the OKC site was upgraded to P25.

The echo is not there to a noticable degree between Carney and Crescent, for example.

 

[N_Jay]

It's enough of a delay, or echo, to notice.

I don't presume to know enough about the system to say for sure what is causing it, only that it is there, and I noticed it to such a degree after the OKC site was upgraded to P25.

The echo is not there to a noticable degree between Carney and Crescent, for example.

It could be due to the digital processing delay in a DSP based station like the Quantar (and almost everything that does P25), but I would just be guessing, but my guess is based on having a discussion with Motorola design engineers on the implications of digital signal processing delays on analog simulcast system design when using DSP based stations like the Quantar, but I could be wrong.

 

[dstew67]

Disclaimer:

This message involves a scanner-related subject, which may or may not involve frequencies and/or talkgroups. It references a system in the OKC area. The abbreviation, OKC, refers to Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. Additionally, Crescent is a city in the central Oklahoma area. DPS refers to the Oklahoma Department of Public Safety. Low-band refers to the Oklahoma DPS radio system that is statewide in the state of Oklahoma. which can be monitored by anyone, almost anywhere in the state, of Oklahoma, (Even Guymon, Oklahoma,) with a decent antenna. 44.70, 44.90, 45.22, 45.18
OHP is an abbreviation for Oklahoma Highway Patrol.

Also, there was a mention about a ham radio repeater. It was used for comparison purposes only, and the author in no way was attempting to subvert this forum with a discussion about ham radio. My excuse is that I can monitor this ham repeater, in the OKC area, (of Oklahoma,) on a scanner. A BCD996T will even allow me to monitor the digital part of this repeater. BCD996T's are nifty scanners. I give them 4-1/2 thumbs up.

2nd Disclaimer:

You shouldn't take the first disclaimer too seriously. Author claims attempt at humor. Copyright 2007 KK5FM. I've mailed myself a copy of this e-mail to make it legal. Using one of the new Oklahoma stamps.

3rd Disclaimer:

The scanners I am using were NOT manufactured in the State of Oklahoma. However, they WERE programmed using Oklahoma fingers. The computer that I use for programming some radios was hand-built within the borders of Oklahoma, using parts of foreign manufacture. Power provided by Oklahoma Gas and Electric. My Internet Service Provider is locally owned.

Nice. This made me laugh out loud, which caused others to look at me funny. Not that they don't look at me funny already, it's just that they all looked at me funny at the same time.

As for the echo, I hear that every day, regardless of whether or not I'm listening to a radio, but the doctor says I'll be OK if I just take that little pill.

 

[freqscout]

KK5FM your post made me laugh, almost uncontrollably, on the inside (I didn't want people to look at me funny, like they did to stew, if I laughed out loud). So what is a "quantar"? Did that come from Oklahoma, Oklahoma, Oklahoma?

 

[PolarBear25]

I was with two Santa Fe officers last week talk about echo one talks and the other officers radio TXs it .5 seconds later..

EDACS Provoice got to love it..

 

[freqscout]

That is inherent to two operations..1) the encoding and subsequent decoding of the audio and 2) the timing delay on the systems allowing all sites to key up simultaneously and pass all audio to all sites at precisely the same moment in time.

The delay going to the analog side is longer because there is an audio delay to allow for the appropriate radio to key up, be voted into the receiver, and pass the audio. Kind of seems excessive but that is just the way the system works for now. You will find delay in most places that you go, especially if the system is digital. Delay is generally more pronounced when the system is more complex (ie: digital, linked sites, simulcast, cross format repeating, etc.).

 

[N_Jay]

I was with two Santa Fe officers last week talk about echo one talks and the other officers radio TXs it .5 seconds later..

EDACS Provoice got to love it..

As with ALL digital formats, and many analog systems that have digital processing components.

SO what is it about ProVoice???:roll:

 

[PolarBear25]

That is inherent to two operations..1) the encoding and subsequent decoding of the audio and 2) the timing delay on the systems allowing all sites to key up simultaneously and pass all audio to all sites at precisely the same moment in time.

The delay going to the analog side is longer because there is an audio delay to allow for the appropriate radio to key up, be voted into the receiver, and pass the audio. Kind of seems excessive but that is just the way the system works for now. You will find delay in most places that you go, especially if the system is digital. Delay is generally more pronounced when the system is more complex (ie: digital, linked sites, simulcast, cross format repeating, etc.).

I hear you on the point, This was two HH EDACS Provoice radios that i was talking about..

 

[PolarBear25]

As with ALL digital formats, and many analog systems that have digital processing components.

SO what is it about ProVoice???:roll:

Nothing about provoice.. Just making that comment..

 

[freqscout]

You still get about a half second of delay between the EDACS radios. The first half of my post was referring to just between EDACS users.

 

[N_Jay]

You still get about a half second of delay between the EDACS radios. The first half of my post was referring to just between EDACS users.

And between Astro radios, and P25 radios, and iDEN radios, and AEGIS radios, and DVP/DES radios, etc.

 

[freqscout]

And between Astro radios, and P25 radios, and iDEN radios, and AEGIS radios, and DVP/DES radios, etc.

Exactly

 

[PolarBear25]

You still get about a half second of delay between the EDACS radios. The first half of my post was referring to just between EDACS users.

Yes I did notice that, Analog is "live" right??

 

[N_Jay]

Yes I did notice that, Analog is "live" right??

Not if any of the stations or equipment uses a significant amount of digital signal processing.

 

[freqscout]

Outbound on VHF there is delay. Seems like inbound is a little more "live". Could be because when the traffic comes in on VHF it is analog therefore it comes out onto 800 as analog. Less processing. The outbound however still get converted into PV then out to analog for the link so there is delay there as well as actual built in delay loops individually programmed for each link.

 

[PolarBear25]

Ok, just wondering if your fighing with a suspect and you need help 10-18, Does that not delay help or would you just hit the E button??