Indiana scanner legality questions

[W9NES]

Thank You GTO 04. That is my point,Thanks for your help.

 

[ffemt601]

Actually Thursday, I avoided a car chase and a police shooting. So I'd argue it works. Although i understand what you are saying, it at least FEELS safer.

As for the fire arm. I'm pretty sure CCW permits are completely illegal in Illinois, there would be no way I could get one, besides I thought it was a federal offense to transport a weapon across state lines?

My vehicle is not a normal CMV, It's my personal car, with a sign in the window. If I was in a car I did not have to drive home in, I could care less, but the fact that I'm putting my own property at risk, is why I'm concerned. Especially being that I am white, with out of state plates, like I said, I stick out ALOT after dark.

I had my boss mail a letter to the Sheriff of Lake County, explaining the situation, based on the reply I receive, I plan to try the IN State Police and even Gary if that's what it takes. My company has been around since the 70's and most of the local police on our routes know who we are, so I am fairly confident in a good response.

thanks for all the info

I was reading the laws, and they are worded strangely but if I understand this line correctly, as long as I am not committing a crime, I should be safe?

(10) a person who possesses or uses a police radio during the normal course of the person's lawful business.
(c) As used in this section, "police radio" means a radio that is capable of sending or receiving signals transmitted on frequencies assigned by the Federal Communications Commission for police emergency purposes and that:
(1) can be installed, maintained, or operated in a vehicle; or
(2) can be operated while it is being carried by an individual.

I could be wrong, but that is what I get from this. However like I said, this is laid out strange and worded vaugely, I'm guessing on purpose

You could always study and get a Amateur radio tech license and be done with it.

 

[W9NES]

Thank You ffemt 601 for the backup.

 

[djl998]

The law is very open to interpretation. Rely on the "lawful business" clause at your own peril.

 

[W9NES]

Simply put if you are not a Ham Radio Operator,Paid or Volunteer Fire,EMS, EMA or a Full time Police Officer then you cannot have one in your car!.Police Officers WILL take your scanner and it will be in the Property Room and you will end up in jail.Numerious Police Officers across the state including Marion Co. Sheriffs Department along with IPD (Now Indianapolis Metro Police) have done this in the past and they have taken people to jail for this.You are much better off to not have one in the car unless again you have a vaild Ham Radio License or a letter of authorization from a County Sheriff or a Police Chief.I would recomend that you call your County Prosecutor or his Deputy Prosecutor and ask them as They are the Chief Law Enforcement Officers along with the County Sheriff.You might even ask the New State Attorney General or one of his Deputy Attorney Generals at The Indiana Goverment Center in Indianapolis as to how they view this law.If you get a answer of no you cannot have a scanner in your car from them that should tell you something.Again please feel free to ask any Police Officer and they will tell you No you cannot have one in your car.

 

[iMONITOR]

A possible work around would be to have a wireless Internet device and just monitor one of the numerous scanner radio audio streams here on RR! Or even your own!

Live Police, Fire, and EMS Scanners on RadioReference.com

They'd have no way of knowing, unless you left it running while they were talking to you.

 

[frankcastle]

You guys are overlooking the obvious. Just about the only way you would be coming in contact with a police officer would be if you broke the law in some way. Obey the law, and the LEO will have no reason to pull you over.

 

[GTO_04]

You guys are overlooking the obvious. Just about the only way you would be coming in contact with a police officer would be if you broke the law in some way. Obey the law, and the LEO will have no reason to pull you over.

Not necessarily. Motorists have been arrested at DUI checkpoints for having a scanner in their vehicle.
Obeying the law is no guarantee.

GTO_04

 

[jackj]

I used to service 2-way radios in Indianapolis, IN during the late '60's and early '70's. This law was struck down by the US Supreme court. The ruling was that no state law could supersede federal laws. The FCC permitted the unrestricted monitoring of the air wave by private citizens so no state law could take that away. Since that time, the FCC has limited legal monitoring of the air waves with restrictions on monitoring cell-phones and cordless phones. You might want to check with the FCC to find out if they have withdrawn the monitoring permission of emergency communications.

 

[W9NES]

*GTO 4 has a vaild point that does hold merit.*This is the same as having a scanner in the car.IC 35-44-3-12 does apply here to any device that receives police radio traffic being a scanner, or getting it from a internet device such as a blackberry. I did call the City/County Bulding and spoke with a Deputy in the Proscutors office today under Carl and I was told that after he looked up the law that Indiana State Law is very clear"He quoted this to me" IC 35-44-3-12 very easy to understand.If you have a Police scanner or any device that is receiving Police radio traffic without a letter from the Chief Law Enforcment Officer for the County or The State you are in violation of this law."He also said that the device would be taken away from you and you would be put in jail and would be under arrest in a back of a police car"This was direct from the Marion County Proscutors office 10-14-09 Tuesday.!

 

[jamesa53]

As for the fire arm. I'm pretty sure CCW permits are completely illegal in Illinois, there would be no way I could get one, besides I thought it was a federal offense to transport a weapon across state lines?

In Illinois that is correct, a citizen cannot obtain a CCW license. However, you may transport a firearm ANYWHERE in the US including across state lines as long as it is unloaded, in a case, and not accessible to the driver (i.e. locked in the trunk).

 

[frankcastle]

Not necessarily. Motorists have been arrested at DUI checkpoints for having a scanner in their vehicle.
Obeying the law is no guarantee.

GTO_04

That's why I put "just about". There are a few exceptions.

 

[usswood]

Actually, I just saw the following in the list of exemptions that I never saw before:

(10) a person who possesses or uses a police radio during the normal course of the person's lawful business.

I'm not really sure what this is intended to mean?

Bounty Hunters...Bail Bondsmen...radio repair shop?? just a few I could think of

 

[n1das]

I used to service 2-way radios in Indianapolis, IN during the late '60's and early '70's. This law was struck down by the US Supreme court. The ruling was that no state law could supersede federal laws. The FCC permitted the unrestricted monitoring of the air wave by private citizens so no state law could take that away. Since that time, the FCC has limited legal monitoring of the air waves with restrictions on monitoring cell-phones and cordless phones. You might want to check with the FCC to find out if they have withdrawn the monitoring permission of emergency communications.

You're barking up the wrong tree. It's technically not the FCC's department. It requires an Act of Congress.

This law was struck down by the US Supreme court. The ruling was that no state law could supersede federal laws.

Citing? (please post link to legal citing of ruling)
Federal law doesn't necessarily preempt state law in every situation.

The FCC permitted the unrestricted monitoring of the air wave by private citizens so no state law could take that away.

It's permitted by the FCC because it's not their department. The FCC is legally silent on the issue.

Since that time, the FCC has limited legal monitoring of the air waves with restrictions on monitoring cell-phones and cordless phones.

This whole mess and absurd legal situation was created by CONGRESS. It started with the passage of the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986 (ECPA '86) to help the cell phone industry perpetuate their commercially-serving lies about privacy. The FCC had NOTHING at all to do with it. This is a common misconception.

You might want to check with the FCC to find out if they have withdrawn the monitoring permission of emergency communications.

Again, it's not the FCC's department so don't bother. It would require an Act of Congress to change that. And YES, you can still legally monitor emergency communications on the airwaves....at least for now.

Like others have said, study and get your ham license and then scan away while mobile in Indiana.

I'm not a lawyer nor do I play one on the internet, so take my opinions with a grain of salt. Good luck and don't listen to anything I wouldn't listen to on the airwaves. :wink:

 

[Littlepage66]

Yes it is illegal unless you have a permit from police chief or a ham licence or a public officail sorry about the spellin

 

[pickles37]

Actually, according to my understanding (and again I am not a lawyer), if the FCC makes a preemptive ruling that supercedes local concerns with federal ones, then this overrules any state laws, which are then null and void. This is the root of the amateur radio exemption (in fact this is the only FCC preemptive ruling I know about):

ARRLWeb: PR Docket 91-36

Note that this only pertains to amateur radio transcievers, not scanners, although fortunately the Indiana law gives a blanket exemption for hams. Now this doesn't necessarily practically help if, say, Indiana repealed the amateur radio exemption then started arresting hams and taking their radios away. I assume it would have to be slowly escalated to the supreme court, who would then find in favor of the hams due to the FCC ruling (or maybe not, if someone argued that the FCC preemption was not valid)

Since almost all police in Indiana are now on 800MHz, the issue does arise as to whether having a VHF/UHF radio or scanner continues to be illegal. If we get to the point where no Indiana police are licensed on VHF or UHF frequencies, it would be difficult to argue that having a radio on these bands broke the law. Even arguing the rarely used ILEEN etc would be difficult (I understand that VHF licenses are expiring and not being renewed). But then again the law refers to frequencies "set aside" by the FCC for police use, not actually used

Here's another gray area: if you have a commercial VHF radio programmed for non-police frequencies, I assume this is legal, as it is not "capable" of working on police frequencies? What if I had a laptop and cable in the car that could be used to program it to police frequences?

Stepping back a few paces, it's hard to know why this law exists at all. If the police want to stop people listening for privacy reasons, surely banning listening to police broadcasts is what is needed. Otherwise what is the point? Its hard to think that someone going to rob a bank would decide not to have a scanner in their car because it was illegal! Is anyone working to try to overturn the law?

(for the reference, I do have an amateur radio license)

David

 

[drunyon]

Despite seeing various state and federal codes, it all still seems very gray. Let's face it, the laws don't keep up with the technology.

For instance, when I am out and about I have a Blackberry on my hip and a laptop with air card on the console. Both are "capable" of receiving police broadcasts via internet feeds. Does this render mere possession of these devices illegal under the state code? Or do I have to be actively using them to receive the protected communications for the code to kick in?

 

[usswood]

Despite seeing various state and federal codes, it all still seems very gray. Let's face it, the laws don't keep up with the technology.

For instance, when I am out and about I have a Blackberry on my hip and a laptop with air card on the console. Both are "capable" of receiving police broadcasts via internet feeds. Does this render mere possession of these devices illegal under the state code? Or do I have to be actively using them to receive the protected communications for the code to kick in?

the purpose of ur device is not to receive those Freqs, therefore it is not illegal..HOWEVER, when u add an APP that now makes that device able to receive those type of transmissions...even if it is threw another source...you are still breaking the law...

If you have a blackberry or IPHONE running and get pulled over...I would close that app out if ur not a HAM. Those devices cost to much to take a chance on an LEO that maybe having a bad day..

 

[TrenchFeeder]

In Illinois that is correct, a citizen cannot obtain a CCW license. However, you may transport a firearm ANYWHERE in the US including across state lines as long as it is unloaded, in a case, and not accessible to the driver (i.e. locked in the trunk).

Well that doesn't do me any good when I'm getting car jacked or mugged