Is there an emergency channel on GMRS/FRS?

[Project25_MASTR]

If I program what you posted in a GMRS radio and key it up right here in a dire emergency nobody will hear me. If I use a simplex channel they are many times more likely to hear me. And yes, if it is CB versus using the repeater pair you suggested as the emergency channel on GMRS I would definitely get someone on CB while the GMRS remained quiet.

As I said, it was discussed - go back and read the other posts of this thread. You'll see it was agreed upon that having a repeater pair as an emergency channel is basically absurd. Maybe in on particular city or something but not as a national emergency channel...:roll:

However, having it as the 675 talk around works. Most people don't understand the concept of if the repeater doesn't work then they should try talk around though.

That being said, 675 is not a nationally designated emergency channel. It is a suggested channel for emergency use (just like channel 9 on CB). The big difference with GMRS compared to CB, commercial radios can actually scan quickly...so why is there a need for a true emergency channel?

 

[03msc]

However, having it as the 675 talk around works. Most people don't understand the concept of if the repeater doesn't work then they should try talk around though.

That being said, 675 is not a nationally designated emergency channel. It is a suggested channel for emergency use (just like channel 9 on CB). The big difference with GMRS compared to CB, commercial radios can actually scan quickly...so why is there a need for a true emergency channel?

I agree. If I had an emergency and a GMRS radio was my only means of comms I'd go from channel to channel calling for assistance, pausing a little on each one to see if there was a response, until I got an answer. Sure, one could try to see if a repeater existed but it just seems the chances are slim so simplex would be the way to go.

 

[jsikora]

I operate a repeater on 675 but monitor so many channels it would be tough to hear someone yelling for help. I have had this since the days of REACT in my area so always kept it up in various locations. I wouldn't call it an emergency channel but all our SR radios do have the channel. In addition we always monitor FRS 1 in our Command Post as 99% of the hunters that get lost that have radios are never smart enough to change off channel 1 when they turn them on ! Used this a few times to walk people out of the woods. As someone said its all about who is listening. This is the case on Ham, GMRS, FRS and any other frequency.

 

[tj20]

A local bar uses the gmrs emergency channel 462.6750, no pl, for security. They get very upset when somebody uses "Their channel". It could get ugly if a person did try to use it in an emergency

 

[03msc]

A local bar uses the gmrs emergency channel 462.6750, no pl, for security. They get very upset when somebody uses "Their channel". It could get ugly if a person did try to use it in an emergency

So someone could use "their" channel but use a PL and it'd tick them off but the users would never hear them whining about it (no PL would mean they'd hear everything but the users with the PL set would only hear that PL). :lol:

Oh wait, was that mischievous??

 

[reconrider8]

yup

 

[VE1GAT]

bluntly your best bet is to use a first responder repeater input & output freq on VHF, just barge in. Stay alive.

 

[mirrorshades]

bluntly your best bet is to use a first responder repeater input & output freq on VHF, just barge in. Stay alive.

I'd say that's a pretty risky plan in general, unless you're absolutely certain that your definition of "life-threatening emergency" is shared by the group that normally uses the frequency.

(E.g. "I'm stranded by the side of the road with a flat tire," is probably not something they'd appreciate, even if it's late/dark/unfamiliar area.)

 

[03msc]

bluntly your best bet is to use a first responder repeater input & output freq on VHF, just barge in. Stay alive.

Best bet to get a response? Probably so.

Best bet to get away with it without some negative (or costly) repercussions? Not so sure!

 

[N9NRA]

Yeah, good point. I think REACT had some plans to monitor 675, but that obviously never happened.
Somewhere I have a copy of the old GMRS guide book that was put out many years ago. I remember there were actually quite a few 675/141.3 repeaters out there, but coverage "nationwide" was never even close. I did find in many areas that there were active repeaters on this pair with the right tone, but getting someone to answer was never a reality.

Obviously never a good idea to suggest there is any sort of emergency response available on a consumer grade radio service. There was a guy back in the early 2000's that was trying to get FRS Channel 1 set up as a default "emergency" channel. Again, never happened.

I don't think anyone really believes it's a reality, and I haven't heard anyone bring it up in many years.

I also read on the net elsewhere about some attempts to get FRS channel 1 set up as a default emergency channel, as was said, never happened. Also, given that a lot of GMRS repeaters are operated as "closed" (meaning you get to use the repeater if you`re invited to use it) repeaters i really couldn`t see how an emergency channel would even shake out, methinks if that did happen it wouldn`t go down well, for the reasons i just gave. Just some thoughts. N9NRA

 

[CaptDan]

bluntly your best bet is to use a first responder repeater input & output freq on VHF, just barge in. Stay alive.

This is exactly what several people are reported to have done did after Super Storm Sandy along the NJ shore. I have heard of quite a few instances where people used hand held radios (Walkie Talkies) they had for their boats on the Marine Band to contact the Coast Guard regarding land based emergencies right after the storm passed. The people had no other means of communications. there have also been several reports of people using uhf and vhf frequencies to contact local authorities - first responders on their frequencies. I have not heard of any of those people being charged.

Several were asked by Police how did they get on a police or fire department frequency - when how simple the process is was explained - there was no action taken. I do know that some law enforcement people were shocked at how easy it was/is for anyone to buy a 2 way radio and program in the police frequency.

It's becoming more difficult to find public safety systems that operate a conventional analog system that we could do this to. I do have a radio in my shelter programmed with the frequencies and Pl codes of all the area fire responders still operating an analog conventional system. In addition I have some local businesses that operate their own business repeaters or systems. Hopefully - someone will be out there if all other systems fail.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

This is exactly what several people are reported to have done did after Super Storm Sandy along the NJ shore. I have heard of quite a few instances where people used hand held radios (Walkie Talkies) they had for their boats on the Marine Band to contact the Coast Guard regarding land based emergencies right after the storm passed. The people had no other means of communications. there have also been several reports of people using uhf and vhf frequencies to contact local authorities - first responders on their frequencies. I have not heard of any of those people being charged.

Several were asked by Police how did they get on a police or fire department frequency - when how simple the process is was explained - there was no action taken. I do know that some law enforcement people were shocked at how easy it was/is for anyone to buy a 2 way radio and program in the police frequency.

It's becoming more difficult to find public safety systems that operate a conventional analog system that we could do this to. I do have a radio in my shelter programmed with the frequencies and Pl codes of all the area fire responders still operating an analog conventional system. In addition I have some local businesses that operate their own business repeaters or systems. Hopefully - someone will be out there if all other systems fail.

I keep most of the local SO/FD systems (along with fire iop) programmed in my radios. I've only found two situations where I've ever needed to have that information.

1) I represent a company called Pacific Wireless, it's easier to demonstrate their products by just hopping on an appropriately free IOP channel with the FD/LEA I'm demonstrating to (with their permission of course).

2) At one point in time I was pretty much smack dab between Lubbock and Fort Worth on 114 and their was a semi collison two miles up road (ruptured a full nitrogen tank) and resulted in a 30 mile detour. Well, there was another accident 2 miles east and the dispatcher didn't understand that there was another accident in the same 2 mile strech of highway. No one was injured in the second accident however it did leave 3 vehicles immobile in the middle of the road, in the middle of the night on the downward slope of a blind hill. I found the two VFD's that responded on a fire IOP channel and directed a couple of the members to the other accident (I was also apart of TxDOT at the time but in a personal vehicle).

 

[03msc]

I keep most of the local SO/FD systems (along with fire iop) programmed in my radios. I've only found two situations where I've ever needed to have that information.

1) I represent a company called Pacific Wireless, it's easier to demonstrate their products by just hopping on an appropriately free IOP channel with the FD/LEA I'm demonstrating to (with their permission of course).

2) At one point in time I was pretty much smack dab between Lubbock and Fort Worth on 114 and their was a semi collison two miles up road (ruptured a full nitrogen tank) and resulted in a 30 mile detour. Well, there was another accident 2 miles east and the dispatcher didn't understand that there was another accident in the same 2 mile strech of highway. No one was injured in the second accident however it did leave 3 vehicles immobile in the middle of the road, in the middle of the night on the downward slope of a blind hill. I found the two VFD's that responded on a fire IOP channel and directed a couple of the members to the other accident (I was also apart of TxDOT at the time but in a personal vehicle).

But in these cases you were authorized to use the frequencies, correct? Or did I misinterpret that? I think in the cases that were eluded to here it would be someone who is not authorized just keying up and saying "um dispatch I need some help." And proceeding to explain their emergency. I think that is where it gets tricky as that agency could easily come after that user for using their frequency without authorization. Or are we saying that is allowed?

 

[KB7MIB]

Someone mentioned CB ch 9. That is actually set aside by FCC rule exclusively for emergency and travelers assistance communications. Of course, this is only applicable within the US, and when skip is rolling in from south of the border, you can hear CB'ers from Mexico as well as numerous Central and South American countries using ch 9 for non-emergency or travelers assistance communications. But, that's the nature of HF propagation.

As to whether or not anyone in any particular area is monitoring CB ch 9, MURS, FRS 1, GMRS 675 repeater or simplex, or any of the Ham AM calling (144.450 in AZ for example), SSB calling (144.200 in AZ for example), or FM simplex calling channels, is going to vary, and it may vary by time of day, the day of the week, or even on a seasonal basis. In some areas, you may find someone on one or more of those channels. In some areas, you won't find anyone on any of those channels.

Your personal experience in your area, is NOT going to match the personal experience of others in other areas. So none of us can make any blanket statement about who is listening, when they're listening, or what channel they're listening on, or not.

John
Peoria, AZ

 

[CaptDan]

But in these cases you were authorized to use the frequencies, correct? Or did I misinterpret that? I think in the cases that were eluded to here it would be someone who is not authorized just keying up and saying "um dispatch I need some help." And proceeding to explain their emergency. I think that is where it gets tricky as that agency could easily come after that user for using their frequency without authorization. Or are we saying that is allowed?

I do not think anyone is suggesting that keying up and saying "um I need some help" is "allowed" under 99% of the regulations or 99% of the time. What I am saying is that in my experience, when certain conditions are met, such as it being a true life or death situation and there really is no other form of communication available, it is permissible to use whatever communication device - equipment that may be available.

I have been told - but have not read it personally - so all I can say is that I have been told that buried deep in the FCC Rules & Regulations & Laws etc there is a line that says in an emergency any equipment on any band my be used, or some words similar to that.

I have always based my actions on what would a reasonable man find acceptable in these exact circumstances?

It is a shame that there is no nationwide uhf and vhf designated emergence frequencies. With so many public agencies being re banded to 700 - 800 frequencies for inter operability and narrow banding there is a ton of surplus equipment around. many agencies already uhf or vhf towers and antennas in place, all that would need to be done is a simple reprogram of a unit to work on a national emergency network. Agencies could & would monitor just like they monitor CB Channel #9

I know of two volunteer fire departments that had to switch to a county operated trunking system, they turned their already in place UHF repeater over to a member, and now the department has a member operated GMRS system for it's members.

 

[mmckenna]

It is a shame that there is no nationwide uhf and vhf designated emergence frequencies. With so many public agencies being re banded to 700 - 800 frequencies for inter operability and narrow banding there is a ton of surplus equipment around. many agencies already uhf or vhf towers and antennas in place, all that would need to be done is a simple reprogram of a unit to work on a national emergency network. Agencies could & would monitor just like they monitor CB Channel #9

There is such a thing. It's called a PLB, Personal Locator Beacon. Little brother to an EPRIB, works the same way. You can purchase one for $200 bucks and change at most sporting goods or boat supply stores. It works 24x7, radios in your GPS derived position and requires no subscription fees, licenses or special training.

Issue is that most people can't be bothered. They'd rather hack their amateur radio.

 

[03msc]

I do not think anyone is suggesting that keying up and saying "um I need some help" is "allowed" under 99% of the regulations or 99% of the time. What I am saying is that in my experience, when certain conditions are met, such as it being a true life or death situation and there really is no other form of communication available, it is permissible to use whatever communication device - equipment that may be available.

I have been told - but have not read it personally - so all I can say is that I have been told that buried deep in the FCC Rules & Regulations & Laws etc there is a line that says in an emergency any equipment on any band my be used, or some words similar to that.

I have always based my actions on what would a reasonable man find acceptable in these exact circumstances?

It is a shame that there is no nationwide uhf and vhf designated emergence frequencies. With so many public agencies being re banded to 700 - 800 frequencies for inter operability and narrow banding there is a ton of surplus equipment around. many agencies already uhf or vhf towers and antennas in place, all that would need to be done is a simple reprogram of a unit to work on a national emergency network. Agencies could & would monitor just like they monitor CB Channel #9

I know of two volunteer fire departments that had to switch to a county operated trunking system, they turned their already in place UHF repeater over to a member, and now the department has a member operated GMRS system for it's members.

I would hope that if, for example, I ever keyed up on a public safety frequency to seek help (in a real emergency) that it would be considered acceptable and life saving. I do think that most people on this thread probably monitor those channels and may be radio operators themselves so would know how to clearly communicate the emergency without sounding like an idiot (we can all probably imagine or visualize how it could go if someone had never talked on a radio or listened to how they use the radios). I say that to say...the manner in which it was done might be a factor as well.

I will agree with you that a national VHF and UHF frequency being monitored by each dispatch center would be helpful. Just think how quick it'd be to pick up a radio or mic and call in an accident or other emergency than it is to make a call to them, even 911, and answer 50 questions after already giving them all of the info they need (at least that's how it is at some places).

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Someone mentioned CB ch 9. That is actually set aside by FCC rule exclusively for emergency and travelers assistance communications.
John
Peoria, AZ

I actually tried looking for that in Part 95D (earlier in the week) and could not find it. To the best of my current digging into 95D, it is merely suggested and was adopted by manufacturers and not actually written into the rules.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

But in these cases you were authorized to use the frequencies, correct?

More or less. I've never been specifically told (while I was at TxDOT) what systems I could and could not use but it was generally assumed that DPS systems were okay to use while working incidents which included the need for coordination with DPS since we had the DPS stuff programmed in the trucks.

 

[nd5y]

95.407 paragraph (b)

Channel 9 may be used only for emergency communications or for traveler assistance.