ISP District-Chicago Changes

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tepping1

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p 25

Hi RF....man, thanks again for the insight...tremendous...so...I went onto antenna search....interestingly....I found the RACOM (.65 miles from me) antenna is basically in direct line with the p 25 that Dist 7 uses(approx 10 miles from me)....so my question is this? Does or should this only occur during transmission? Unlike up where you are....both Dist 7 East Moline and Dist 1 Sterling probably only transmit on avg 1 time every 15 min or so. How does p25 work differently than trunked? Sterling comes in as loud and clear as East Moline and it's way closer to you than to me? What makes you think RACOM is going to p25 soon? and how would that affect the analog outlying small communities on EDACS that transmitt into the County Sheriffs office?

What I did try was plugging in to a wall outlet separate from the strip near me...although it's 8 ft further away...it seems to have helped a little but it's certainly not close to perfect. What kind of Uniden scanner would you recommend? Again, I run the old bc700a off of the Discone for the Iowa State Police....one last observation. My Discone is located 8-10 ft above where my electrical transmission line enters the house....everything I've read is it shouldn't matter....your thoughts?

thanks again!
 
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Tepping1 reply

The sporadic static issue is due to distance, the further you are from the tower, the greater the chances of increased static for analog. Your P-25 issue may be another factor in causing more static adding to it. If the P-25 system doesn't transmit much, it should only cause the issue when they transmit. Unless it is from a P-25 Control Channel, which is continuous transmit. And that would would be worst case. But, I've found that at certain times as when we have hot/very humid weather, digital signals from various distant systems, will show up nearly everywhere as noise, in the 155Mhz band, in 460Mhz band, in 850Mhz bands. I look at this and wonder, where is this coming from? I check the actual audio, and it is digital "hash" noise. Now a great deal of this could be "Business Radio Systems" and not P-25 based, but these systems are still running digital streams, and it sounds like noise bursts or static. Plus some are spread spectrum, using "Freq. Hopping" schemes so the carrier signals are quickly just there and gone in an instant. And it all makes noise in the spectrum. Could be anything besides Police/Fire/EMS.

P-25 digital is indeed nearly identical Trunked technology as EDACS systems, but EDACS is Analog, P-25 is Digital and uses mostly the same frequencies in the 800Mhz band. With EDACS since it is analog, there is no speech transcoding (vocoders) involved and such, you will still hear static. Trunking is trunking, you still have a control computer running the freqs and assigning things but the government wanted a standard for Police/Fire/EMS and P-25 was chosen for interop reasons.

I was looking at this post RACOM Network Trunking System, Various, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies which indicates that Racom would be switching over to full P-25 soon from EDACS.

Any scanner that does Analog Trunking Only will be fine, I actually have an a few old Radio Shack portables myself which are either Uniden or GRE made.

Your electric service line is probaly not the problem, you might try a good ground on the antenna, that will discharge some of the build up of various electrical charges from the air, but it won't probably clear the static. It is just "hearing" more of it than a smaller antenna.
 

tepping1

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p 25

RF...I actually has read that RACOM post several weeks ago...sounds like 2020 before switch if in fact that's the case. Ok, explain how P 25 transmits via towers differently than trunked? I know they are digital packets that are transferred then regenerated into voice...but as mentioned...I have Dist 1 Sterling, Dist 7 East Moline and Dist 8 Peoria scanning. I get Sterling from car on I 39 like they are standing in the room with me and fo course I'm probably 4 miles from where East Moline broadcasts......yet I have never heard 1 transmission from Peoria which is about the same distance as Sterling... Still not quite clear how distance and signal make this different than trunking? But I'm learning!
 

VASCAR2

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RF...I actually has read that RACOM post several weeks ago...sounds like 2020 before switch if in fact that's the case. Ok, explain how P 25 transmits via towers differently than trunked? I know they are digital packets that are transferred then regenerated into voice...but as mentioned...I have Dist 1 Sterling, Dist 7 East Moline and Dist 8 Peoria scanning. I get Sterling from car on I 39 like they are standing in the room with me and fo course I'm probably 4 miles from where East Moline broadcasts......yet I have never heard 1 transmission from Peoria which is about the same distance as Sterling... Still not quite clear how distance and signal make this different than trunking? But I'm learning!


There are a couple reasons why your hearing District 1 Sterling and not District 8 in Peoria. The Starcom 21 system is divided with three regions and each region has it’s own site controller. Region 1 site controller is located in Chicago. The Central Contoller for Region 2 is located in Springfield. The third region site controller is located at Collinsville in southern Illinois. Peoria area trunking traffic is routed through Springfield site controller whereas D-1, D-7 and D-16 are routed through Chicago.

It takes more resources to have TG’s broadcast across different regions. Normally adjoining District traffic is transmitted on sites in an adjoining district. There are times before ISP communications consolidation where Sterling would Dispatch for E Moline D-7. It took less SC21 resources for D-7 to be dispatched by D-1 than D-8 in Peoria. Since some counties in D-7 border counties from D-1 the D-1 1A Talk Group can be heard on sites inside D-7.

There are normally only two TG transmitted on all sites within a District, ISPERN and the District A talk group like 7A. The only way a Trooper can talk to another Trooper on Car to Car is if both Troopers are affiliated/voting on the same site. If the Trooper’s radio are affiliating/voting different sites the Trooper must tell the other Trooper to go to car to car TG. By switching the channel selector to car to car both units are then affiliated to their respective site and will hear the car to car traffic. The SC21 mobiles and portables have a scan feature to monitor different TG’s. Even if the TG is in the scan menu the mobile will only receive certain affiliated TG’s even though the radio is scanning. Another disadvantage to trunked radio systems is changing Talk Groups. It takes about two seconds to change TG’s because the radio has to communicate with the site controller. With a simplex analog radio once you change channels you have immediate communications. Two or three seconds can feel like a very long time if you need to transmit.

Troopers are instructed to select the District A Talk Group for their physical location when travelling outside their assigned District. If the Trooper fails to do this the Trooper will hear their home District selected Talk Group which utilizes extra resources (frequencies). If every Trooper left his radios selected to their home District when traveling to Springfield or major event it could overwhelm the SC21 system.

If a Starcom 21 site looses connectivity to the site controller the site goes into a fail soft mode. The site will act like a conventional base repeater. Only radios affiliated/voting that site will be able to only communicate with other radios affiliated with that particular site. Base Station radios affiliate with one site and if that site looses connectivity to the site controller then only radios affiliated/voting that particular site will be able to talk to the base.
 
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tepping1

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interesting

V2,

Thanks for all the info. So I think what I am understanding is that the Dist 8 Troopers are routed through Springfield region and the only way I would pick that up is if I was much closer near the next controlled site?
What are the Starcomm on wheels? Is there a hint in the title? LOL....I appreciate you guys distributing this info to a total novice...I'm just trying to pick up what I can and am interested in living in the QC which includes both states Highway Patrol where I can. All insight is appreciated~
 

VASCAR2

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V2,

Thanks for all the info. So I think what I am understanding is that the Dist 8 Troopers are routed through Springfield region and the only way I would pick that up is if I was much closer near the next controlled site?
What are the Starcomm on wheels? Is there a hint in the title? LOL....I appreciate you guys distributing this info to a total novice...I'm just trying to pick up what I can and am interested in living in the QC which includes both states Highway Patrol where I can. All insight is appreciated~


Your right about needing to hear a different site to get D-8 Peoria. Motorola owns the SC21 system and contracts dictate much of the operation of SC21. Every Site//Tower in the SC21 system has to be linked to a SC21 site controller which acts like a server to a computer system. The SC21 sites can be linked by internet, land line or microwave to the site controller. All three Site Controllers are linked and any radio which has state wide access can talk between any region. If the ISP needed to they could dispatch D-8 from Sterling instead of Springfield.

A Trooper in D-8 can select D-7 and talk to any radio on the D-7 7A talk group. There are templates which show how each radio is programmed. Same for the portable hand held radios that are on the SC21 system. A Trooper in Cairo on a hand held radio can talk to a Trooper in East Dubuque Illinois on th SC21 system.

The site on wheels are communication trailers or vehicles which can be moved into disaster area or major event. If a communication center was damaged by a Tornado the site on wheels could be moved into the area to take over communications including putting up an antenna and act as a site to access the SC21 system.

If you could pick up site 152 in Henry County you could probably hear D-8 talk groups. Being in East Moline your probably to far west to hear a site that is affiliated to D-8. As an example when I visit my Daughter up by S Beloit I can’t hear Dist 1 on the S Beloit site. If my scanner picks up the Rockford simulcast sites they are affiliated to D-1 and I can hear Dist. 1 TG 1A.
 
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tepping1

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ok....what should I get?

V2...if you read through any of my monotonous exchanges with RF.....I'm trying with the help of both of you to understand the various systems and what I should be able to pick up my 536. I'm in the Quad Cities...so if you were to look at that area...what P25 on Starcom21 should I be able to pick up? In my discussions with RF, I am having a hell of a time with interference/static when I plug my Discone into my 536...in fact, I have given up on it and have it plugged into an old Uniden 700a that increases my distance to about 50 miles to pick up outlying counties including the Iowa State Police on conventional broadcasts and they really come in pretty darn clear....the supplied telescopic antenna picks up Starcom21 Dist 1 and 7 just fine....so Dist 8 is our of reach because it's controller is in Springfield....I looked at the Starcom21 tower map and zoomed in...still not quite understanding what it reaches and what it doesn't....so my next silly question in doing more research is...I thought P 2 was a range between 6 and 12 mgz? How does it use IP protocol then to transfer data? Is it done via towers like a cell call? Have a good laugh...I know for you guys it's like explaining how to drive to a 4 year old....I'm ok with that:)

ps....I read through 1 year old minutes from Scott county Ia and Rock Island Il who share the border...they apparently have formed an alliance and are very close to the buildout for p2...it may be happening as we speak...thanks again for the continuing education
 

mws72

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I just discovered this thread is more about Quad-Cities than District Chicago. Probably should move over to the regular Illinois or even the Multistate forums. Anyway it looks I am close to tepping1. The RACOM Davenport site is about ten blocks away as the Bettendorf site is over a bit to the east, When it comes to Starcom21 the only site I get any reception is the #103 in East Moline. From the beginning I have heard D-1 on it and of course D-7 both A & B talkgroups. Occasionally some of the statewide tgs have been heard. I have heard D-8 on East Moline but not very often probably could count on one hand in the last year. When extended reception conditions come up I can hear Kewanee site with D-8 traffic on it if a trooper is in the northern part of Peoria or Stark counties, sometimes even D-14 traffic. Just like I could hear the Monmouth site with D-14 and occasionally D-7 on it. As to RACOM noise that might be your area. I use a stubby duck antenna for one scanner that I only use for Scott county tgs on Davenport site. Where I use a different scanner to receive all others on the site. Then I also have a scanner for non-trunked radio and another for just aviation (both civilian and Milcom) I used to have one for business trunked systems. The only times I hear noise on a trunked system is if I try to monitor other sites in the Quad-Cities. As to the local agencies changing to P25. My sources have been able not been able to find much information. The change will happen but to when is the question. RACOM will be turning off their sites in the Waterloo area Dec. 1st as to other areas is up in the air. We finally have a receivable site for ISICS in DeWitt. So I finally the ISICS Scott Co sites soon (information I see online it will be simulcast in Scott Co. which means more fun. The only experience I have was when I visited Iowa City. None or a paperclip was best to receive that in their metro area. So I figure that will best here.
 

rbrtklamp2

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I was thinking the same thing the while radio wave and directional antenna conversation should have been in a different thread but it was a interesting read.

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rbrtklamp2

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No worries like I said it was a interesting read. I thought they would have moved it as well but just like the real Chicago no one cared LOL

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werinshades

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I don't know if one of the administrators could move the "non-District Chicago" posts to the Starcom forum. Good reading , just not on the subject.
 

werinshades

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Cadet Class 127

Congratulations to Cadet Class #127 on their promotion to solo patrol status as of yesterday. If anyone else text tags the radio ID's, C-300 through C-319 are now C-246 through C-264. District 5 in Joliet changed their call signs a couple weeks ago and are now using 5-70 through 5-79. Still awaiting the 2 cadets from District 2 to sign on with their new radio call signs. Good timing with the upcoming Winter months, and I'm sure they'll be busy.
 

RoninJoliet

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Those "Troopers" are true hero's listening to them save people in snow drifts and ice conditions on roads , they never hesitate ...My hats off to them....
 

werinshades

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Illinois State Police Cadet Class 128 receives Oath of an Officer | RiverBender.com

Congratulations to Cadet Class 128 on their graduation from the ISP Academy. They're reporting to their assigned Districts on Monday, Dec. 31, 2018 to begin the 14 week Field Training portion of the probationary period. You'll probably be hearing some new radio call signs next week...whatever the District uses for Cadets. (District Chicago usually starts with C-300 and goes from there. They're getting 9 Cadets from this class).
 

ILjim

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Just heard a State Fire Marshal unit (RID of 426011) on Metro B...

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