Kern Canyon IC

[Eng74]

The command is still on Kern 5. You will here them on there during the swich from day to night ops, otherwise they are on tacs. Just crews and dozers doing the last line work and the work inside the line.

 

[scanfan22]

Because even though you cannot get the tac channels, at least getting the command channels would give you a better idea of what is going on. I don't know what they're called in Kern county, but the idea I am thinking of is similar to the LA county TRO channels. Those type of channels for Kern county would be a good feed.

Why would I want to only feed the Kern dispatch channels when there is a major fire burning covering all of the NIFC channels and then some?

 

[tomasG]

I understand you better now but I think you're unaware that Kern turned this over to a CALFIRE Incident Management Team. Type 2 I believe. But what I don't understand is that if it is a CALFIRE incident now why they are using federal frequencies. They are, by and large, using NIFC, USFS Tac, etc. They can also be found on VFIRE and VTAC. I've been listening to them all day with excellent reception.

Keep in mind that once initial attack (IA) is over they go into Operational Periods (OP's) of 12 or 24 hours. They are in the OP's. During IA they would stay on Kern as they did until resources are in place. As I recall from my ICS training Kern turned it over to CALFIRE once it exceeded their operational and logistical control. But why federal frequencies? I never did find air attack or the helo's. Fixed wing went down early leaving only helo's operational. They are normally down on the AM air band but I couldn't hear them at all.

My log periodic covers 134-174 rather nicely. A friend of mine stacked and phased two of them and then put two UHF 470-512MHz yagi's above them and phased. It seems that when LACOF has a fire they roll in on UHF and instantly switch to VHF for operations. UHF is used for Admin and Command. My Austin Ferret by comparison to a discone sucks. But I have a friend with repeater space on McDill above Palmdale and he's going to let me remote a scanner in there. If only it were today!

 

[scanfan22]

read my other posts from this weak and then PM me, and we will talk.

 

[lbfd09]

I understand you better now but I think you're unaware that Kern turned this over to a CALFIRE Incident Management Team. Type 2 I believe. But what I don't understand is that if it is a CALFIRE incident now why they are using federal frequencies. They are, by and large, using NIFC, USFS Tac, etc.... ... ... ...!

When an incident reaches a certain stage as this major incident did, the comm plans are normally sent through Sac (might be another FIRESCOPE center, but I thought it was Mather) for command and tac assignments. These often make use of the national cache of equipment the is preprogrammed (at least some) and waiting for field use. Migration to the nation cache frequencies will also free up the statewide tac and cmd channels for breaking incidents that may not have the other frequencies, repeaters, or links needed. It is a very orchestrated coordination effort that sometimes, with multiple incidents in the same local area, will get adjusted daily.

I was on one incident where one of the tac channels was abandoned. This was because of another fire. Yes, radio plans are written in pencil and reprogrammable radios, so they can change at the drop of a cap or helmet. Hopefully they don't get that bad, just remember that they do change. At least we don't have to buy all those xtals, like in the good old days.

There's a whole lot more to this, but I hope that gives you a better idea of what happens with the changing comm plans.

 

[inigo88]

Eng74, we got a submission for 169.1125 as Kern County Fire A/G. I am betting that is incorrect, and he actually copied a NIFC cache radio channel that has been assigned to the incident. Can you confirm?

 

[K6CDO]

I understand you better now but I think you're unaware that Kern turned this over to a CALFIRE Incident Management Team. Type 2 I believe. But what I don't understand is that if it is a CALFIRE incident now why they are using federal frequencies. They are, by and large, using NIFC, USFS Tac, etc. They can also be found on VFIRE and VTAC. I've been listening to them all day with excellent reception.

_..._

The reason Federal frequencies are in use is this small organization called FIRESCOPE. After the disastrous 1970 Wildfires, Congress chartered a project to look at how better to manage fire. Eight Federal, State, and Southern California local agencies collaborated in establishing a number of standards and operating methods (including, among other things, ICS) which have become national in nature. One of the products was a common set of operating frequencies for large incidents, where USFS, BLM, CalFire, and then-OES contributed frequencies to the pool. In California, frequency assignments are normally handled by one of two Geographic Area Coordination Centers (North Ops in Redding and South Ops in Riverside), where the larger picture of making sure that Fire A's operations don't interfere with Fire B (or Fire C, or Fire D ...). (During very heavy wildfire conditions, frequency management reverts to the National Incident Fire Center in Boise).

So just because it is a "local" or "state" fire doesn't mean that the comm plan will be limited to the frequencies of the particular agency who is managing the incident. It is very much a collaborative effort aimed at safety on the line.

 

[tomasG]

The reason Federal frequencies are in use is this small organization called FIRESCOPE. After the disastrous 1970 Wildfires, Congress chartered a project to look at how better to manage fire. Eight Federal, State, and Southern California local agencies collaborated in establishing a number of standards and operating methods (including, among other things, ICS) which have become national in nature. One of the products was a common set of operating frequencies for large incidents, where USFS, BLM, CalFire, and then-OES contributed frequencies to the pool. In California, frequency assignments are normally handled by one of two Geographic Area Coordination Centers (North Ops in Redding and South Ops in Riverside), where the larger picture of making sure that Fire A's operations don't interfere with Fire B (or Fire C, or Fire D ...). (During very heavy wildfire conditions, frequency management reverts to the National Incident Fire Center in Boise).

So just because it is a "local" or "state" fire doesn't mean that the comm plan will be limited to the frequencies of the particular agency who is managing the incident. It is very much a collaborative effort aimed at safety on the line.

I understand how frequencies are managed and I know that yesterday all teams that rotated in had been instruted to progrm bank 15 to the comm plan on their BK radios. Standard SOP. South Ops publishes the frequencies and since this is only a Type II incident taken over by CALFIRE I expected that their massive block of frequencies would be used. No harm; no foul. I found them and was able to program up a radio and listen in. But I cannot confirm that 169.1125 is being used for A/C or Helo's. That was programmed in. For the life of me I could not fnd air attack at all.

 

[Eng74]

Kern County like L.A. County is a grey book county. Cal Fire pays for them to cover the SRA, state response area. If the fire crossed the aqueduct, which I think it did, it went onto Federal land (BLM). I don't think that is a normal A/G for us but with the fire's that broke out in LACoFD's area which were about 10 to 15 minutes away by air so That might be the reason for the A/G change. I do not have a current channel book at home the last one I have 169.1125 was not in the moto/kenwood/BK radios.

 

[tomasG]

I have confidential frequency lists courtesy of my employer. They really aren't anything most of you guys know already. 169.1125 has been programmed for days and I programmed all other CDF and USFS air frequencies with nothing heard. Containment is at 85% and hand crews are doing the bulk of the work. 169.1125 is an IA frequency.

This is NOT confidential.

SOUTH OPS FREQUENCY PROCEDURE 2011

Frequency assignments and procedures for 2011 have four changes from 2010.
• The FAT I.A. Victor (am) frequency changed from 122.425 to 128.475
• The HMT, SMX, PRB, O22 I.A. Victor (am) frequency changed from 122.575 to 135.575
• Both secondary A/G frequencies have also changed we now have 166.8750 from BFL to SAC and 169.1125 from the Mexican border to BFL.
• Cal Fire has assigned their air tactics FM frequencies to their tanker bases zone of influence not to the ranger units.
AIR TO GROUND FREQUENCY NOTE: 170.000 IS THE PRIMARY A/G FREQUENCY ON ALL FEDERAL INCIDENTS. 166.8750 AND 169.1125 ARE SECONDARY A/G FREQUENCIES AND ARE COORDINATED BY THE GACC AND ARE NOT TO BE USED UNLESS AUTHORIZED BY THE GACC.
We have four pre-assigned Initial Attack victor frequencies, six pre-assigned Initial Attack FM air tactics frequencies and two I.A. A/G frequencies (shown below), those frequencies are for initial attack only. If the incident goes into extended attack the I.A. frequencies are returned to the air attack base for I.A. and a request to replace those I.A. frequencies will be sent to South OPS. Those frequencies will be utilized for the duration of the incident. Any frequencies not requested through SOPS are not authorized.

ALL FREQUENCY REQUESTS OTHER THAN THOSE ON THIS LIST WILL BE REQUESTED THROUGH THE NICC CDO FOR FEDERAL INCIDENTS AND THROUGH SACRAMENTO FOR CAL FIRE INCIDENTS.

Southern California OSC & Cal Fire Southern Region CSR

PRE-ASSIGNED AIR TACTICAL (VHF-FM) FREQUENCIES
Air Tactics 1 166.675 is assigned to CNF, LPF, INF, and CND.
Air Tactics 2 169.150 is assigned to BDF, SQF, STF, KNP, and YNP.
Air Tactics 3 169.200 is assigned to ANF, SNF, and SMP.
Air Tactics 4 151.280 is assigned to PRB, SMX (SRA FIRES),
Air Tactics 5 151.295 is assigned to CVH, SBD (SRA FIRES)
Air Tactics 6 151.310 is assigned to HMT, WJF (SRA FIRES) FAT
Air Tactics 22 - 151.2875 is assigned to RNM, O22
Air Tactics 23 - 151.3025 is assigned to PTV
Air Tactics 21 - 151.2725 is a GACC wide secondary air tactics

INITIAL ATTACK AIR TO GROUND FREQUENCIES
151.220 – Cal Fire
170.0000 – Federal South OPS GACC Wide
166.8750 – Federal BFL - SAC
169.1125 – Federal Mexican border to BFL

PRE-ASSIGNED VICTOR (VHF-AM) FREQUENCIES
135.975 - Ramona, Fox, Bishop, Hollister, and Porterville Air Attack Bases.
135.575 - Hemet, Santa Maria, Columbia, and Paso Robles Air Attack Bases.
133.425 - San Bernardino Air Attack Base.
128.475 - Fresno Air Attack Base.

PRE-ASSIGNED VICTOR FREQUENCY FOR THE SOLAR PLAN:
Air Tactics 7 (130.200) is ONLY to be used as the pre assigned victor frequency for all incidents included in the “SOLAR” Plan.

 

[tomasG]

My current feed: http://tinyurl.com/633hwh3

 

[inigo88]

I do not have a current channel book at home the last one I have 169.1125 was not in the moto/kenwood/BK radios.

Thanks! I found it in the CAL FIRE 2011 standard load. It's Ch 123 and is allocated for Initial Attack.