LA County CWIRS P25 Upgrade - On the air

Status
Not open for further replies.

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
SoCal
Bunch more new rebanded licences.

WQUF613
Bald Mt, Bunrt Peak, Tejon Peak and Whitaker Peak
851.2125
851.7125
852.3125
853.2125
853.8375

WQUH896
Blackjack
851.275
852.0875
852.775
853.275
853.800

Castro
851.225
851.750
852.250
853.225
853.750

WQUC698
Johnstone, Puente Hills, Whittier, Puddingstone
851.9625
852.4375
852.5875
852.725
852.9625
853.0625
853.300
853.5875

=


Frequencies to keep a listen on...
 

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
SoCal
Lot of voice testing today. Several new TGs (64003 / 64004 / 64006 ) noted.

Anyone notice if any of the additional sites besides Baldwin/Rolling Hills on the air yet?
 

bcorbin

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Los Angeles
Nothing up here in the SCV yet. I'll keep an ear on 851-854 and will be back when/if anything appears... 8*)

Lot of voice testing today. Several new TGs (64003 / 64004 / 64006 ) noted.

Anyone notice if any of the additional sites besides Baldwin/Rolling Hills on the air yet?
 

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
SoCal
Sounds like additional sites are coming on the air.

This afternoon I can hear data on 851.9625 which is licensed at Johnstone, Puente Hills, Whittier, Puddingstone.

However signal is too weak from my location to track.

If anyone is out that way and can monitor better and help supply the site information I'll get it into the Db.
 

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
SoCal
Also hearing data on 853.5875.
Similarly licensed for sites at Johnstone, Puente Hills, Whittier, Puddingstone.
 

inlandpatch

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
110
Location
Southern California
Also hearing data on 853.5875.
Similarly licensed for sites at Johnstone, Puente Hills, Whittier, Puddingstone.

I can get it here in Chino,
looks like they haven't switched it over to a Phase II system yet? not sure how this is possible but the System ID matches along with the WACN, it shows as "0105h-2020"

i'm not familiar how Phase II works, but find it interesting....

scanner monitoring: BCD436HP and BCD396XT
 

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
SoCal
20-20 likely indicates site 20, RFSS 20. Not sure about 0105h. Existing site in the DB is 40-40.

What is the NAC for the site? 00A similar to site 40?

If you use a trunk tracking software you should be able to further analyze the data including ID'ing other frequencies for the site, if they are control, alternate, etc.
 

inlandpatch

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 27, 2008
Messages
110
Location
Southern California
20-20 likely indicates site 20, RFSS 20. Not sure about 0105h. Existing site in the DB is 40-40.

What is the NAC for the site? 00A similar to site 40?

If you use a trunk tracking software you should be able to further analyze the data including ID'ing other frequencies for the site, if they are control, alternate, etc.

what software do you recommend? I've attempted to use some in the past but doesn't seem to work, not sure what i'm doing wrong
 

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
SoCal

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
SoCal
Was able to get to a better location today to monitor the control channel. Picked up following data.

Site 20
851.9625a
852.4375a
852.5875a
852.7250a
853.5875cc

NAC 00A

RR Db. has been updated.
 

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
SoCal
So I plugged in all rebranded LACo 800Mhz licences and interestingly found some existing users on a few of them and potential interference as well.

For example on 853.300 I stumbled across what deciphered to be two separate LTR systems from Mexico as I could not find any US licences. I eventually also ID's 5 other 850-853 frequencies with LCN orders as members of the same LTR systems.
Pretty amazing we can hear them up here in LA. Over the years I've noted how powerful Mexican systems can be.

Then you have 852.9625 which belong to Getty Museum right here in LA basin and part of their system at their two museums. Matter of fact today 852.9625 is the control channel and can be heard pretty strongly.

I also noted pretty heavy bleed interference on 851.300 coming from LAPD MDT frequency using 851.3125 which booms out from multiple radio sites in the basin.

I guess keep this in mind when listening and verifying frequencies for this system to avoid false positives from simply hearing voice or data activity on them.
 

bcorbin

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Los Angeles
It's alive.....

Some time this morning, a new P25 control channel popped-up on 851.2125 - it's got a great signal into Santa Clarita, and a quick peek at the system parameters indicates:

N: --- # NAC (yeah, I know, that's not a value)
W: 91FE5 # WACN
Sy: 105 # System ID
R:030 # RFSS
S:030 # Site Number

I've still got a huge pile of work on my desk, but I'll try to run this through one of the full diagnostic packages later... stay tuned 8*)
 

bcorbin

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Los Angeles
My treatise on Hamiltonian dynamics can wait...

Ok - Pro96 reports the following:

851.2125 c
852.3125 a
853.8375 a

System ID: 105
TowerID: 3030 (T1E1E)
WACN: 91FE5

The Frequency Identifier tables show two entries, both with a base of 851 MHz, one with a 6.25 KHz bandwidth and the other with a 12.5 KHz bandwidth

No adjacent sites reported

My GRE is now reporting the NAC is $00A
 

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
SoCal
Thanks for the info.

According to FCC licences those frequencies are licensed at Bald Mt, Burnt Pk, Tejon Pk and Whitaker Ridge. Basically looking down on SCV and Western portion of Antelope Vly.

I'll get the Db update later tonight.
 

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
SoCal
OK Db updated.

So here is what looks like we have so far:

Site 20 = East Simulcast (5 of 8 planned frequencies identified)
851.96250c
852.43750a
852.58750a
852.72500a
853.58750c

Site 30 = Northwest Simulcast (3 of 5 frequencies)
851.21250c
852.31250a
853.83750a

Site 40 = West Simulcast (4 of 10)
852.06250c
852.27500a
852.93750c
853.77500a

Still need to keep ear out for Basin Simulcast with 10 frequencies and stand alone sites at Lower Blue Ridge 5 frequencies, Castro 5, Catalina 5, Hauser 6 and Blue Rock 5.
 

bcorbin

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Los Angeles
Ok, maybe someone can shed some light on the following:

Site 30 seems to be in some strange mode this evening in which the control channel will not decode on a PSR-600 (for reference, the signal from Site 30 is strong, LA-RICS and STRS are decoding just fine), however it will decode on a PSR-800.

I saw similar behavior when LA-RICS was first installed up on Oat and thought it had more to do with the fact I was hearing it by knife-edge... Now I'm wondering if there might be more than one acceptable modulation schemes for the control channel in Phase II ?? (the PSR 800 being compatible, the 600, not fully...) Is it normal to diddle this scheme during burn-in?

For what it's worth, its configuration (apart from the control-channel issue) appears to be unchanged from the previous report - three frequencies, no neighboring systems, etc etc...
 

WayneH

Forums Veteran
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7,522
Location
Your master site
Site 30 seems to be in some strange mode this evening in which the control channel will not decode on a PSR-600 (for reference, the signal from Site 30 is strong, LA-RICS and STRS are decoding just fine), however it will decode on a PSR-800.
Are you sure it's a control channel? If so there may not be enough identification coming over the CC to cause a reaction. You would have to look at the scanner's raw PC/IF output. I've seen it before. It's a Harris system so sometimes their junk acts strange in new builds.

Also, with Phase II the control channel will not be affected. P2 is strictly a voice thing.
 

bcorbin

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Los Angeles
Absolutely positive. I'm all-but line-of-sight to the transmitter, I think; the signal is booming in, it's clear and distinctive, no interference, no phase noise, no flutter, and a PSR-800 placed right next to the PSR-600 (which had been decoding the control channel on that very frequency over the last few days with no problems) is decoding the control channel just fine.

I *am* using the PC outputs on both radios... which means I'm relying on GRE's DSP to do the churning - the -800's DSP is evidently more tolerant of whatever is happening than the -600's.

I would argue that P2 is a bit more than a voice thing, given that demodulating TDMA requires different hardware (though certainly - once the system is vetted, up and running that's functionally true). I guess, what I'm wondering, is whether or not there's a test mode in which the CC stream can be sent visible to the tdma demodulator, invisible to the fdma ... (giving a nice, steady, well-known stream of data to tweak the tdma modulator/demodulator stages)...

It is, admittedly, a long-shot, but I have this thing about eliminating long-shots... 8*)


Are you sure it's a control channel? If so there may not be enough identification coming over the CC to cause a reaction. You would have to look at the scanner's raw PC/IF output. I've seen it before. It's a Harris system so sometimes their junk acts strange in new builds.

Also, with Phase II the control channel will not be affected. P2 is strictly a voice thing.

>>> Update... Ok, I just fired everything up - and... the signal is full kershmash, but it's not decoding on the -600 or the -800 tonight (and actually sounds a little ratty to the ear, but that's subjective at best). I think I'm willing to write this off as a burn-in issue, barring information that suggests otherwise... //b
 
Last edited:

LAflyer

Global DB Admin
Moderator
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
1,827
Location
SoCal
Site 40 - West simulcast seems normal here in the basin.

I have noted however over the last few months during build out that signal strength can mysteriously drop in/out - go from 90%+ to not decodable and then back in matter of minutes.
 

bcorbin

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 14, 2004
Messages
250
Location
Los Angeles
Ok, well here's one I wasn't expecting...

Site 30 remains full-scale here (in the SCV), however the data stream on the control channel is (now pretty obviously) distorted and it refuses to decode on any of my gear.

In the mean time.... a new control channel has popped up (and it's decoding fine) - Pro96Com data follows:

System ID: 105
Tower ID: 5757 (T3939)
WACN: 91FE5

CC is currently on 853.5875, data dump reads:

851.9625 a
852.5875 a
852.9625 a
853.3000 a
853.5875 a
853.9125 c

Shows two 851 MHz tables (12.5 and 6.25 bandwidths) and no adjacent sites.

From the GRE: NAC: $00A
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top