Louisville Metrosafe

[mjaghall]

I saw with interest the new info on the Jefferson County Kentucky fequency database listings, which now shows Metrosafe in the licensing phase for an 800 mhz Astro Apco 25 system. That would be pretty good news, since there may be a means to monitor that system with the newer Uniden and Radio Shack digital scanners. Does anyone no how solid that information is (that it will be an APCO-25 system)? Maybe it is time to start selling my analog radios to raise money for a BC396t.

 

[pblumer]

try getting in touch with the project team and find out if they wont tell you Im sure someone that uses this site will be able to tell you. I will search and find out if it is APCO-25 or not I will post when I find something out.

Patrick

 

[ofd8001]

Louisville MetroSafe

I saw with interest the new info on the Jefferson County Kentucky fequency database listings, which now shows Metrosafe in the licensing phase for an 800 mhz Astro Apco 25 system. That would be pretty good news, since there may be a means to monitor that system with the newer Uniden and Radio Shack digital scanners. Does anyone no how solid that information is (that it will be an APCO-25 system)? Maybe it is time to start selling my analog radios to raise money for a BC396t.

There are two phases to MetroSafe. Phase I which will combine all the dispatch centers into one place, is on-going. This should take place in the next couple of weeks. Also, there is an interoperability component to Phase I. As part of that component, they are installing some new transmitters, receivers, etc. This is also being done right now.

The major component, the voice radio system is still in the Request for Proposal development stage. It will be an APCO 25 digital system, 800 MHZ trunking. They are looking at mid-2007, but remember this is a government deal. I wouldn't be too surprised if that doesn't get pushed back another year.

There will be, hopefully, some patching to existing VHF frequencies, particularly for the suburban fire departments.

The bottom line - your analog scanners will still be good for a couple of years. However, if you plan on purchasing any new equipment, I'd suggest digital (which is what my last 2 have been).

 

[pblumer]

Thats good to know for travel purposes. You know though about Metrosafe. I am suprised that the Commonwealth has not jumped on board like every other state and have a statewide system that has the possiblity to have all Public safety from around the state on it. Go Cards Boo Cats LOL

Patrick M. Blumer

 

[mastr]

pblumer wrote..".. I am suprised that the Commonwealth has not jumped on board like every other state and have a statewide system that has the possiblity to have all Public safety from around the state on it.."

I have been told that idea came up a number of years ago, and was not well accepted by the various agencies that were to be the end users.

 

[windigofer]

There are two phases to MetroSafe. Phase I which will combine all the dispatch centers into one place, is on-going. This should take place in the next couple of weeks. Also, there is an interoperability component to Phase I. As part of that component, they are installing some new transmitters, receivers, etc. This is also being done right now.

Okay, so this is probably the "ambulance" coordination phase I've read on. Thanks.

The major component, the voice radio system is still in the Request for Proposal development stage. It will be an APCO 25 digital system, 800 MHZ trunking. They are looking at mid-2007, but remember this is a government deal. I wouldn't be too surprised if that doesn't get pushed back another year.

Okay, so it *is* confirmed to be APCO25? Nice :3 (As it is, I've a Pro-96, no worries here, just curious) I'm curious as to where you got that info (if you can safely divulge it, that is)

BTW, have they decided if they are going to build a new system or if they are going to convert the *present* Metro government 800MHz system (which is a Type IIi Motorola hybrid system) to APCO-25? (Do keep us updated; I alas don't exactly have connections to the folks planning this, I'm just getting info from the FCC databases :3)

 

[ShawnCowden]

well isnt the 800 mhz system ksp is putting up gonna be used by others also including mdts ???

 

[ofd8001]

BTW, have they decided if they are going to build a new system or if they are going to convert the *present* Metro government 800MHz system (which is a Type IIi Motorola hybrid system) to APCO-25? (Do keep us updated; I alas don't exactly have connections to the folks planning this, I'm just getting info from the FCC databases :3)

The existing system was not designed with county wide coverage. They'll probably re-use some of the existing sites and add some more. I'm not sure whether they will re-use the existing system frequencies though I can't think of a reason why they shouldn't.

The frequencies posted on the RR database are those assigned to the Louisville area under the NPSAC (or whatever its called).

As far as why Kentucky hasn't gone the way other states have - beats me. Kentucky can be at the forefront of a lot of stuff, or at the back end. A lot of it relates to money. The more costly something is, the less likely it is to happen.

 

[windigofer]

BTW, have they decided if they are going to build a new system or if they are going to convert the *present* Metro government 800MHz system (which is a Type IIi Motorola hybrid system) to APCO-25? (Do keep us updated; I alas don't exactly have connections to the folks planning this, I'm just getting info from the FCC databases :3)

The existing system was not designed with county wide coverage. They'll probably re-use some of the existing sites and add some more. I'm not sure whether they will re-use the existing system frequencies though I can't think of a reason why they shouldn't.

The frequencies posted on the RR database are those assigned to the Louisville area under the NPSAC (or whatever its called).

Okay, thanks. :3 The main reason I was curious as to whether the older Type IIi system was going to be used is because I *have* noticed animal control enforcement and a few other city/county groups moving to the new system (most recently animal control enforcement/"animal cops"). 70 million also seems a bit low to deploy an entire system out of whole cloth *laughs*

If there was a new system to be built, I was curious if frequencies had yet been assigned (so I can go ahead and add that to monitor and map).

Again, keep us updated as much as you can--and I'll keep you all updated with any new talkgroups I notice :3 (I've a Pro-96, so catching APCO-25 talkgroups shouldn't be an issue. I've had success with it before with Bristol/Kingsport, TN's system (which has one or two undocumented APCO-25 talkgroups they tested a few years ago, and which reportedly is going full APCO-25 Real Soon Now), so as long as blatant encryption isn't involved I should be able to catch them as they're implemented.)

 

[pblumer]

Is this going to become a sticky??? since metrosafe is in the process of getting started. alot of people in the area are going to want to share updates.

Patrick

 

[scannerfreak]

Is this going to become a sticky??? since metrosafe is in the process of getting started. alot of people in the area are going to want to share updates.

Patrick

Good idea, done!

 

[BigDog-911]

MetroSafe is in full operation as of Wednesday with the transferring of Louisville Fire and Rescue, Louisville Metro EMS and Louisville Metro Police Departments being dispatched out of the same facility. For interoperability there has been several Motorola Moto-Bridges installed in the center with numerous outside the county agencies programmed into the system. There are still updates being made to the Moto-Bridge system with the programming of more radio channels.

The 800 mhz channels issued to MetroSafe right now, from what I can tell, are being used by radio techs for testing and other things.

When the final phase of MetroSafe is implemented, almost all of the Public Service entities will be be in one building. Possibly to include other Law Enforcement Communications Centers that are in the Jefferson COunty area.

 

[windigofer]

Okay, so they actually *have* the 800MHz channels licensed already? (If so, do you know which particular agency they are licensed under? I ask so that I can do a ULS search and begin monitoring)

 

[scannerfreak]

So, are you saying the new system is up? As in, completely seperate from the County/City TRS? Or, that the first step, combining dispatch facitlies, has been complete? If seperate, what is the new Sys ID, control channel(s), ect..? Thanks!

 

[BigDog-911]

The dispatch centers have been merged together in the same facility. In reference to the 800 mhz system, they are testing some radios and things like that as well some repeater sites. At this time, I am not sure if the licenses are with Motorola or MetroSafe or who. I will try and ascertain somemore information and post as it is available.

 

[windigofer]

Thanks much for keeping us updated. (I wouldn't figure the 800MHz system was quite up yet, but I *have* found a few 800MHz frequencies registered to Louisville Metro Government that per the FCC records were listed as a longterm project.)

In fact, I may have just found a possible license:

http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=2745232

WQDI354, which is actually quite a new license for Louisville Metro Government (one I've not seen before), listed as YF (public trunked national plan, 821/866 MHz band; not sure how this would be affected by the Nextel rebanding, if at all--as I've not had any luck finding a list of 800MHz NPSPAC frequencies, if someone in the know could confirm if the frequencies listed below are in that bandplan?).

Emission type is listed as 8K10F1D (digital, non-voice) so this could just be MDTs, but this is just about the only potential system licensed if there *is* going to be a separate system for MetroSafe. (WPPA787 and KKV802 (which are the only other trunked system licenses) are part of the preexisting system used by animal control, Standiford Field Security, Metro Parks et al.)

According to the FCC's records, the license was filed for on 7/29/2005 and approved on 9/1/05. Frequencies are as follows:

866.375
866.825
866.85
866.875
866.9875
867.0375
867.15
867.25
867.35
867.375
867.5375
867.5625
867.5875
867.825
867.8625
868.0625
868.2625
868.325
868.3625
868.975

(Yeah, there's twenty frequencies on the same license on the *repeater* end and well over 300 frequencies (with lots and lots and lots of repeats and inputs around the 821MHz band) listed. Not at all sure if all of them are in the system, fortunately if it's like any other Motorola system it should hopefully only have four control channels to follow on my Pro-96! :3)

So, have I struck paydirt? *looks all innocent*

 

[BigDog-911]

I know that all of the former Suburban / Jefferson County Police MDT's are on the 800mhz(notice the pigtail antenna on the trunk lid) and the Urban are fed through a wireless modem(the little black loaded antenna on the passenger rear quarter panel)

That might be what the licenses are for...not sure how many channels they send info through.

 

[windigofer]

*nods* I do know there are a number of conventional frequencies on the 800MHz band that (per the FCC) use digital modulation (specifically under license WPJV652 at 856.4375/857.4375/858.4375/859.4375/860.4375) which are listed as being for both voice and data traffic (and is also listed as a gradual buildup)

This particular set of frequencies/lists (the ones I previously noted) are completely new and to my knowledge haven't ever been licensed to Louisville Metro at all before, it may be MetroSafe, might be something else *shrugs*

It would probably be helpful if I could ever find a copy of the NPSPAC bandplan for 800MHz for Kentucky (I've found it for some of the surrounding states, but not for KY :/), as one of the previous posters had specifically mentioned they were using NPSPAC frequencies...it just seems interesting as the licensing date would be just about right for the beginning of MetroSafe implementation, and it's hard for me to picture an entire large trunking system set up just for an MDT )

Also, generally, the one other MDT system or two (possible ones, that is) that I'm aware of are the two talkgroups on the present trunked system that are data channels (and, based on sound samples I've found online, do sound MDTish at any rate).

 

[ofd8001]

So, have I struck paydirt?

Possibly. The frequencies that you mentioned are the 20 that have been assigned to Jefferson County as part of the NPSPAC deal. I think, however, they have already been listed in the RR database.

"MetroSafe" is, for lack of better words, a Public Safety Communications system. There are several components to this "system". One is having all of the major dispatch facilities under the control of one entity, that entity being called "MetroSafe". That entity gained control of the dispatching operations from the metro police, suburban fire, urban fire and EMS. Up until recently, the dispatching operations were under control of their various departments (Metro police, Urban fire who for a while also dispatched the urban side of EMS).

The dispatch operations for the metro police had been in two locations - one at the old city police headquarters, the other at the old county police headquarters. About 10 days ago, the old city police dispatching operation was moved to the old county police headquarters.

The suburban fire departments and suburban side of the Louisville Metro EMS dispatch centers were also at the old county police headquarters. The urban fire (Louisville FD) and the urban side of EMS was at their own center near the University of Louisville. This operation was too set to go to the old county police headquarters. I'm not absolutely positive they had made the transition yet, but when I was visiting the new combined dispatch center, there were radio consoles and operator positions for Urban fire and Urban EMS.

If you can believe it from a governmental entity, they actually got the new interim dispatch center up and running earlier than scheduled. Forgive the bragging, but its appropriate. The folks associated with the combining worked really hard to accomplish that.

Another component was to set up interoperability for the various emergency service disciplines not only within Jefferson County, but also for adjacent counties. This component was also completed as part of the move to one dispatch center. I haven't heard much testing or use of the interoperability equipment, though when I looked at the equipment, it was rather impressive.

This "new" dispatching center is "long term temporary". The ultimate goal is to create a new dispatch center from the old federal reserve bank building. That component of the MetroSafe project is a "work in progress".

The last component is the change to a new 800 MHZ digital trunking system. That hasn't gone out for bids yet (I suppose getting the new center up and running consumed a lot of time and the folks weren't able to devote much attention to getting their request for proposal finalized).

I'm guessing it will take a couple of years for that new system to get in full operation. However, getting back to the listed frequencies, I know they have received some new 800 MHZ radio equipment as part of the interoperability component. I expect that in the near future, now that the licenses have been issued, one may hear some testing on the frequencies mentioned.

The police have MDT equipment in their cars, the old city police having one system and the old county police having another system. About ten frequency pairs are associated with those systems.

The Emergency Management Agency (EMA) operates a hybrid trunking system that is used by some city agencies and the local airport. That system has about 15 frequency pairs.

It remains to been seen whether some of the 15 pair EMA frequencies and some of the MDT frequency pairs will be used in addition to the 20 newly licensed frequency pairs as part of the new voice radio system. I think those who will be engineering the system will have to make that determination.

So my advice is this. If you have a digital scanner, you may want to program the 20 new frequencies to see if you hear anything. If you don't have a digital scanner, there isn't any rush to get one, because you won't hear much other than testing.

Sorry for the long winded dissertation, but trying to explain a complex system isn't easy, and I'm sure I don't know all there is to know.

 

[windigofer]

It's all good--the info that you folks have been giving has been *immensely* helpful.

As it is, I will be keeping an ear out on those frequencies for anything interesting (I do live in the area and own a Pro-96), and will report should I hear test traffic or control channels on any of those frequencies (nothing yet so far, but then again, if they're just testing, that's not surprising).