LTE Radio Network? Encrypted?

[SCPD]

Will the LTE Radio Network and will apparently replace all the networks in the US with one single unified network.... anyways, will this be encrypted or do you think scanner manufacturers will adopt the technology into their products?

 

[radiomankc]

Most likely the FirstNet system will be 100% encrypted.

 

[rdale]

FirstNet will be data only for MANY MANY years. Voice is not even to the drawing board stage yet.

 

[MTS2000des]

by nature, all LTE is encrypted. and being cellular in nature, you can forget any scanning of any kind passively.

 

[billrobbins93]

addition

by nature, all LTE is encrypted. and being cellular in nature, you can forget any scanning of any kind passively.

and being cellular in nature, you can expect failures of the worst kind in a national emergency,storm, etc

 

[Thayne]

and being cellular in nature, you can expect failures of the worst kind in a national emergency,storm, etc

Ya Sure, You betcha

(not a joke--serious as a heart attack, I think so too)

 

[billrobbins93]

LOL!

Ya Sure, You betcha

(not a joke--serious as a heart attack, I think so too)

People have the strangest idea that cell phones and Police and Fire radio systems are fail proof. I am afraid they are all prone to fail.

If we had a storm the magnitude of what Hurricane Floyd was back in 1999/2000, the amount of radio traffic would snarl any and all backup systems and main systems.

People who work in the radio industry, whether it be installers or techs, do NOT know the seriousness and the harm it would do if people keep believing that cell phones and police radios will beat amateur radio in an emergency.

The truth is that nobody plans for the worst and that is why I support this rulemaking process for encryption on the amateur bands.

I read through the 5-mile long(exaggeration) thread on the FCC process and while some of you have some good marks, NONE of you realize that the Cell Phone Networks will not be able to be used in a national emergency. Here's one reason why, CLOGGING.

People will jam the networks trying to get a hold of family members PLUS the possibility that the towers will be down.

Even if the president was to make a law to prevent people from using the cell networks, it wouldn't be paid attention to.

As far as radio systems go, NONE of you realize that all radio systems require POWER. And some encrypted radio systems require POWER to run the system that does the encryption.

The LTE network will not come into existence, that is something that I feel is guaranteed.

 

[nd5y]

People also have the strangest idea that amateur radio is fail proof.

 

[billrobbins93]

People also have the strangest idea that amateur radio is fail proof.

with the fact that portable repeaters have come out, your point is moot.

 

[mikewazowski]

FirstNet will be data only for MANY MANY years. Voice is not even to the drawing board stage yet.

Voice over LTE? Already way passed the drawing board stage and implemented by several manufacturers.

 

[SCPD]

any kind of radio network is prone to failure...

 

[Thunderknight]

Voice over LTE? Already way passed the drawing board stage and implemented by several manufacturers.

Not mission critical PTT voice.
Or talk-around (simplex).

 

[mikewazowski]

Nobody mentioned PTT or simplex, just voice.

FirstNet will be data only for MANY MANY years. Voice is not even to the drawing board stage yet.

 

[nd5y]

with the fact that portable repeaters have come out, your point is moot.

Portable repeaters aren't new. They have been available to amateur radio and public safety for decades and they can fail too.

 

[rdale]

Voice over LTE? Already way passed the drawing board stage and implemented by several manufacturers.

FirstNet? It absolutely is NOT being used as a national voice system, and is not being implemented by anyone anytime soon for that purpose.

 

[bchappuie]

LTE is an ALL IP network. So, if someone finds something to de-crypt it, we couldn't afford it. Push to Talk over LTE is being worked on, and is available on AT&T's network. It's just a VOIP solution, with some bells and whistles. There was some outfit in Texas was working on public safety P2T on LTE.

 

[billrobbins93]

LTE is an ALL IP network. So, if someone finds something to de-crypt it, we couldn't afford it. Push to Talk over LTE is being worked on, and is available on AT&T's network. It's just a VOIP solution, with some bells and whistles. There was some outfit in Texas was working on public safety P2T on LTE.

LTE will probably go the way of the powerline Idea, because there is not enough infrastructure to implement that big of a radio system PLUS, there are geographical issues as well.

Unless they have the funds to put a server every 200 yards all throughout the country, I wouldn't be looking at this period.

AT&T's PTT sucks like a hoover as does that new app from HARRIS, there have been about a hundred failures because of cell towers being down and I don't mean physically down, I mean equipment.

 

[GTR8000]

If we had a storm the magnitude of what Hurricane Floyd was back in 1999/2000, the amount of radio traffic would snarl any and all backup systems and main systems.

Really? Because I was in the field working as a firefighter throughout Floyd, and none of our radio systems were "snarled" up, or failed. They didn't fail during the Northeast Blackout of 2003 either.

People who work in the radio industry, whether it be installers or techs, do NOT know the seriousness and the harm it would do if people keep believing that cell phones and police radios will beat amateur radio in an emergency.

The vast majority of public safety radio systems have backup generators at hardened sites, in addition to the ability of mobiles/portables to use simplex frequencies and not have to rely on repeaters.

How many ham radio repeaters have the same capabilities as far as on-site generators? Many of them are ad-hoc machines using junked old public safety radios that some guy decided to throw up at his house in his spare time.

As far as radio systems go, NONE of you realize that all radio systems require POWER. And some encrypted radio systems require POWER to run the system that does the encryption.

Thankfully you registered on this site today to enlighten all of us ignorant people! Gosh, what would we have done without your invaluable insight? :roll:

As previously mentioned...ever heard of something called a backup generator?

It's pretty clear that you have little to no actual knowledge of public safety radio systems, and instead have some ridiculous notion that ham radio is the more reliable form of communication available. Total nonsense.

 

[mmckenna]

People who work in the radio industry, whether it be installers or techs, do NOT know the seriousness and the harm it would do if people keep believing that cell phones and police radios will beat amateur radio in an emergency.

What's really sad about this statement is that you obviously have no understanding what so ever about public safety radio systems. Your statement shows a lack of understanding and knowledge that I personally would not post on the internet for the world to see.

The truth is that nobody plans for the worst and that is why I support this rulemaking process for encryption on the amateur bands.

And exactly how did we make the jump from system survivability to ham operators needing to use encryption? Encrypting ham radio traffic is about the most pointless thing you can do. If you want amateur radio to be the saving grace of the world, the last thing you want to do is make it more complicated and less interoperable. The nice thing about amateur radio is that with a 2 meter FM radio you can talk to any other ham with a similar radio. Why put that at risk by adding encryption to this mess?

I read through the 5-mile long(exaggeration) thread on the FCC process and while some of you have some good marks, NONE of you realize that the Cell Phone Networks will not be able to be used in a national emergency. Here's one reason why, CLOGGING.

And while it's true that the cellular networks are designed around flimsy infrastructure and no one should rely on them for an emergency, there are solutions that will help public safety around congestion. Please, before you post any more on this subject, go research GETS (Government Emergency Telecommunication Service) and WPS (Wireless Priority Service).

People will jam the networks trying to get a hold of family members PLUS the possibility that the towers will be down.

Very likely, but this doesn't necessarily affect public safety radio systems. And before you start with the ham radio being superior thing, take a look at NIFOG to see the plans that are in place to allow public safety agencies to communicate.

Even if the president was to make a law to prevent people from using the cell networks, it wouldn't be paid attention to.

GETS/WPS, look it up.

As far as radio systems go, NONE of you realize that all radio systems require POWER. And some encrypted radio systems require POWER to run the system that does the encryption.

Uh, yeah, pretty much anyone who has ever touched a radio before has some grip on the idea that electricity is involved at some level. It's pretty obvious you've never been to a modern radio site designed for public safety.

The LTE network will not come into existence, that is something that I feel is guaranteed.

The LTE networks are already running, AT&T, Verizon..... As for the FirstNet, it will happen, but they'll run out of funding to complete it and will end up leasing services from the carriers to fill in all the gaps. It's going to suck because just like p25, by the time it makes it to market, there will be something better, faster and cheaper available. This is just the way these things work out.

So, it's pretty obvious you are a ham operator, and it's pretty obvious you've drunk the kool-aid about how Ham radio is going to save the world. What you seem to not understand is that most commercial/public safety radio guys are also Ham operators. Of all the ones I know, 95% of them have their ham tickets.
Thinking that amateur radio has some secret power over the spectrum that no one else does is not the case. While it's true that some agencies will let their infrastructure crumble before fixing it, or won't train their people how to use things like talk around, tac frequencies, etc, most agencies do. Most public safety people already have lots of simplex frequencies in their radios. Dispatch centers have higher powered systems that are simplex and let them talk to other dispatch centers, all simplex. I know, I've got a 911 dispatch center at work and I was there when someone went around the area cutting fiber optic cable knocking down the PSTN and cellular networks. Some of the circuits used to connect dispatch centers to the remote radios went down, but you know what, everything kept going.
You know where the hams ended up? Out at the hospitals passing bed counts and other non life safety traffic. Out on the street corners being eyes and ears. All good things, but to suggest that the public safety agencies all ground to a halt and the ham radio operators were the only ones who could communicate is as far from the truth as you can get.

Look, I have an amateur radio licenses also, I have for 20+ years. I've also worked in public safety communications and telecommunications fields for that long. Yes, Ham radio has some unique capabilities, but to say that all emergency communications will grind to a halt and the world will rely on some guy with a bunch of radios stuffed in his wife's mini-van is just comical.

 

[MTS2000des]

Ham radio whackerism aside, the problem with any infrastructure heavy network, which LTE certainly is- is that governments cannot AFFORD to procure and operate them.

Cellular companies can because their systems are designed to generate REVENUE. Every IMEI on the network is one making money for them. Their goal is profit. They can afford the tremendous capital outlays to implement such systems. Local and state governments cannot. The average cellular system to cover a major city makes the cost of implementing the latest P25 phase 2 simulcast network a thrift store bargain. Pennies on the dollar bargain.

FirstNet is a pipe dream envisioned by Congress critters who are taking payola from the telecom cartels. It is nothing but a massive SCAM to claim more radio spectrum for the cartels. LTE is great technology, when it works.

Want to know what it is like when your LTE BTS is down? Come to my part of town right now where Sprint has taken down 3 of the 5 cell sites that serve my little part o' Atlanta for equipment upgrades this weekend. Granted, they did send out text messages and are highly publicizing the outage, but not having a usable phone is frustrating.

If my life depended on it, I would be dead. No talkaround, no isolated site operation, no nothing. A network based on revenue generation is NOT appropriate for anything mission critical, technology aside, the priority of the operator is going to be profit not performance. If a carrier's network is damaged or destroyed, they would soon wait for the insurance check before rebuilding.

In a public safety radio system, some of us would be wading through mud, fire, floods, whatever to get it back online ASAP. This is where LMR will always be king. It's COST EFFECTIVE and pays for itself, is way less infrastructure heavy, resilient, and can be maintained "in house" with minimal staffing.

Mission critical voice over ANY commercial for-profit network=BAD IDEA.