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LTR Set up

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dgoodson

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I am attempting to figure out a local LTR Business system. I have read the Wiki, and followed what is called Method 2 using my 780XLT.

I found a bunch of 451.xxx -> 453.xxx frequencies in old fashioned "conventional search" mode, and started plugging them in, one at a time, in the first 20 channels of a bank.

I found that four frequencies were associated with one FCC callsign, and worked great in LCN slots 1, 2, 5 and 7. Talkgroups on those channels seem fine. There is a fifth frequency on the same callsign, and I have heard nothing on that frequency.

My questions are these:

1. Since I am hearing things on LCN 1,2,5,& 7, should I assume there are at least three "missing" frequencies I have not yet identified for LCN 3,4 and 6. In other words, LCNs would be consecutive without any being skipped?

2. The system I'm monitoring isn't too busy, so I don't think there are too many conflicts for a channel. Is it plausible that the fifth frequency on the same license that I have not yet heard is a "GoTo" channel?

Thanks
 

captclint

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dgoodson said:
1. Since I am hearing things on LCN 1,2,5,& 7, should I assume there are at least three "missing" frequencies I have not yet identified for LCN 3,4 and 6. In other words, LCNs would be consecutive without any being skipped?
Not at all. It is not unusual for systems to use only a few frequencies in a small system, and they don't always follow any logical sequence of only odd or no missing slots. I suspect the system has a logical plan which will be come more obvious as the system grows, but not as obvious in the beginning (This is pure conjecture on my part). I have several systems in my area where 1-3 licenced freq are not used at this time.
dgoodson said:
2. The system I'm monitoring isn't too busy, so I don't think there are too many conflicts for a channel. Is it plausible that the fifth frequency on the same license that I have not yet heard is a "GoTo" channel?
Yes, this is quite possible, but it may be held in reserve for future use as the system grows. Do you hear the data burst (approximately every 10 seconds)? Even if you do, it could still be held in reserve for future use. I have some freq's that broadcast the tone burst, but have no other activity. I always keep those channels in the bank as conventional to keep track of their use.
 
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dgoodson

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I appreciate all that. I guess I need to sit back, listen and pay attention. Maybe I am in better shape than I realized.

If you are familiar with the Uniden 780, I cannot figure out how to make the programmable scan list ID tags turn on/off. I have programmed 5 tags (1-1, 1-2, ... 1-5) in a scan list for bank 6 (where my system is), but I can't for the life of me figure out turn on the "scan ID" versus "search ID".

dg
 

captclint

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dgoodson said:
for the life of me figure out turn on the "scan ID" versus "search ID".
dg
For my 796, you hold Trunk button for 2 sec to switch. However, you want to be in the ID search mode for quite a while until you have identified most of the users. This is especially true if you haven't nailed all the freq's yet. Unless you want to lock out certain TGID's (because they talk all the time, or you could care less about them), I recommend you keep it in the search mode
 

dgoodson

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Being back in the swing of a work week, the system is very very active. I have logged about 30-35 groups. Its essentially non-stop. I set up my radio to do conventional scanning from 451-453, and locked out the four frequencies I had found for this system. I let it run for 30 minutes or more, and I did not hear a single other frequency which appeared to be a part of this system, So I am thinking that these four frequencies are the full extent of the system.
 

captclint

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With nearly all the systems near my location, they span 451-464 in ONE system. Admittedly, most show in the FCC DB for the general area(2 mile radius), but some do not show anywhere near the initial location. While you are probably right about finding all of them, you might have to:
1. Open up the search range
2. Look at any other systems by the same FRN and/or Name within a reasonable distance (if flat, maybe 35 mi, if hilly maybe 25 mi).
3. Look at any other Commercial systems in the original area by another licensee (this is a last resort, and usually only necessary after you have done 1 & 2)

Enjoy what you have found, but still leave on ID search, and have fun identifying the users. This is often the most difficult part.
 
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dgoodson

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I really appreciate your guidance and encouragement. I'd been rather reluctant to take this on, but the Wiki method was very straightforward.
 

cg

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some LTR systems are split up on licenses. For example, 3 freqs may be on the first license and another 2 on a second. After finding one license, I always search by FRN on the FCCs site to see if there are other freqs. I have found one system that had the same guy using 3 names (they were close but different).

I have mapped over 20 LTR systems in my area and there are still unknowns out there.

chris
 

EricCottrell

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cg said:
some LTR systems are split up on licenses. For example, 3 freqs may be on the first license and another 2 on a second. After finding one license, I always search by FRN on the FCCs site to see if there are other freqs. I have found one system that had the same guy using 3 names (they were close but different).

I have mapped over 20 LTR systems in my area and there are still unknowns out there.

chris
Hello,

I find the location search on the RRDB a good way to find frequencies at the location under multiple licenses. Just look up the license and click on the link in the lat or long column.
http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=RR

73 Eric
 

dgoodson

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Let me ask another couple of questions---

If I am searching in conventional mode, to try and pick out potential LTR freqs, can I assume that anything that DOES have a PL/DPL associated with it is NOT an LTR freq?

If I happen to accidentally mix frequencies from two systems in one set up, will that be obvious, or is that more trial and error? in other words, what if I have LCN 1,2,4 from one system and a valid LCN 3 and 5 from another.

Thanks
 

captclint

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dgoodson said:
can I assume that anything that DOES have a PL/DPL associated with it is NOT an LTR freq?
Yes! As I said in the Wiki, many systems have 1-3 conventional freq's, sometimes with PL/DPL's
dgoodson said:
If I happen to accidentally mix frequencies from two systems in one set up, will that be obvious, or is that more trial and error? in other words, what if I have LCN 1,2,4 from one system and a valid LCN 3 and 5 from another.
If you just happen to put LCN 05 from another sys into scanner position 5, you will not be able to tell that it is from another system except by listening. The main key will be that you do not hear parts of the conversation on pos 05 when/if they do shift to a GOTO channel in the other system. Otherwise, you will hear nothing on 05 if it is not LCN 05 from another sys.

I have this problem with 13 systems in the area, and I basically try to sort this out using the frequencies registered for each system. This usually works except for the stray freq's that Chris and I have mentioned where they mix it up from different systems.
 
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kg4ekc

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Recently an LTR system has been setup here in SC. I have no idea on the LCN order number. I do believe I know the home frequency though. So from what I've read this is 1, correct? So how do I input the other LCN numbers just guess and see what works without something written on this system? Any help would be appreciated. I will go look at the Wiki section also.

Greg
 

captclint

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edweirdFL

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I'm trying to use the method #2 to figure out things, but it's difficult on the BCD996T since when you hit HOLD, you can't tell which channel number you are on.

Any chance someone could document the steps on a scanner with the dynamic memory setup?

Ed
 

kg4ekc

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The city near me has set up a new LTR (sounding) Trunking system. My question is it is a JPS ACU 1000. Is this a scanable system. And is it truely LTR? Thanks in advance for any and all help. I have read the LTR stuff. I am using a PRO 2055 and it can not show me LCN order. i am not sure if it is shut off by the system admin or not though. I can see talk groups everyonce in a while though.
 

edweirdFL

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I picked up a Pro-97 this week to use for figuring out LTR systems, and I have also found many systems that didn't send the repeater info "Rxx" out on the idle bursts.

I've just let the scanner sit in LTR mode on a channel manually until either someone was talking, or it keyed up for a couple seconds and sent the x-xx-255 Rxx message. Sometimes that takes 20 minutes or more.(and then waited another 20 minutes to verify the code)

Ed
 

rescue161

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edweirdFL said:
I picked up a Pro-97 this week to use for figuring out LTR systems, and I have also found many systems that didn't send the repeater info "Rxx" out on the idle bursts.

I've just let the scanner sit in LTR mode on a channel manually until either someone was talking, or it keyed up for a couple seconds and sent the x-xx-255 Rxx message. Sometimes that takes 20 minutes or more.(and then waited another 20 minutes to verify the code)

Ed
It's so much easier to use LTR Trunk with an LTR data slicer. You'll have the LCN in short order.
 
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