Magic Stick TV / PVC Antenna

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Joseph11

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I'm looking for a low-profile and discreet outside antenna for my scanner. I currently have an old marine antenna mounted outside my house, but performance above VHF high is poor and gets even worse when going into the 700 MHz range. I saw the Magic Stick TV / PVC Antenna online and it seemed like it may be suitable (and was cheap enough). Does anyone have any experience with these? I wanted to break it open and see what's inside of it, but I don't want to damage it. Performance inside my house with it doesn't seem too bad.
 

RadioTowerMaster

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Being an XTREME hard core traditional purist I was once skeptical of Daves DPD antenna products until I purchased a couple & I must say they never outperformed the tried & true commercial grade antennas I rely on for work but for hobby use they pretty much match & in some cases have actually outperformed some of my hobby antennas, I find they perform best as close quarters compromise antennas when one is dealing with severe space & HOA restrictions, I believe this product fits the same parameters but I would go with www.dpdproductions.com Most hard core hobbiest with even basic antenna theory skills & knowledge under their belts open enclosed antennas like this just because, if you open it up even carefully to see what makes it tick it is just going to let you know what's inside, it wont tell you if it really works & the seller probably wont take it back. Just like any other new design in the radio electronics field there always will be pros & cons, some legitimate, some bogus, some with agendas & some self written, good luck & if you take the jump, please get back to us with your experience.

Caveat Emptor: Keep in mind any warranty that specifies a given return policy after a specified time trial always confirm with the seller what is the minimum time period you have to keep their product before they will agree to accept it for your full refund, most 30 day refund periods means you must keep their product a full 30 days before being refunded, some 60 & 90 day return policies mean you must keep their product for at least 30 days but can return it from the 31st to the 60th or 90th day with a restocking fee.
 

cmdrwill

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Those TV antennas have no good reception in the VHF band, including VHF TV. They are 75 ohm impedance and horizontally polarized. Only TV ch 14 to 64.

I doubt they would work at 700/900/900 as those are not TV bands anymore.
 

NC1

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I can't imagine there being much more than just a couple coiled up lengths of wire in there, and they hope you receive something (anything) that satisfies you just enough so it's not a return.

You can probably do better with a couple coat hangars cut to length and taped on the wall.

Anybody know for sure what's inside?
 

popnokick

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TV antennas work very well for scanners. But those Magic Stick antennas are major compromises, and probably do not cover all of the frequencies you want... particularly 700 mHz. But older TV antennas will. Read the article below by Bill Cheek posted here on RR. And also the RR thread it appears in:

http://forums.radioreference.com/scanner-receiver-antennas/62647-tv-antenna-scanner-reception-2.html

And... if you want a low-profile, old-style, outdoor mounted, omnidirectional TV antenna that is going to cover a wide range of scanner freqs, consider this one:
Winegard Roadstar Omnidirectional TV Antenna (RS2000) from Solid Signal

Copyright (c) 1995-97 By Bill Cheek, COMMtronics Engineering
<All rights reserved>


TV Antennas for Scanners?


There is some controversy over the use of TV directional antennas for
scanners and scanning. This article lays out the facts and the
substance of the issue so folks can see, calculate, and decide for
themselves.


So why would you choose a TV antenna for your scanning post? To hear
all there is to hear, for one thing. The GAIN of the antenna alone
will enable you to hear far beyond your present range with an omni
antenna. But there's more! Big city environments are RF garbage
dumps, right? Noise and interference wreak havoc and consternation on
all but the best scanners, and sometimes even them, too.


Say there is a nearby repeater or pager transmitter that overloads
your scanner's front end. The expensive fix is to buy a notch filter
or a tunable filter and notch out the offending signal. Often it
doesn't work. A TV antenna will work! Sure! Just rotate the antenna
until one of its side or back nulls is pointed at the offender, and
the results can be startling! Oftentimes, the offender will disappear
into the noise, even if you're tuned to the sucker! When the offender
is nulled out, the antenna will still receive signals from the forward
and other directions.


A TV antenna has many peak and null lobes around its 360-degrees of
view. The deepest nulls will be on the back while the highest peaks
of gain will be off the front. Nevertheless, there are a whole slew
of minor peaks and nulls on each side of the antenna between front and
back, and these can be used to great advantage when selecting a
desired signal and rejecting one or more undesired ones. The list
goes on, but time and space force me to move on. You get the idea?


If you choose to use a directional TV antenna for scanning, it will
work wonderfully well between about 30 MHz and 1 GHz and better than a
discone down to 25 MHz and up to 1.3 GHz. The caveat here is HOW to
install it......NOT the same as for TV reception.


A TV directional antenna used for scanners and scanning should be
mounted in the VERTICAL plane....that is, with its elements pointing
into the ground and into the sky with the boom retained in the
horizontal plane as for TV reception. A short mast should be rigged
into the normal mount of the antenna....say 2-ft to 3-ft, max. This
side mast must mechanically join the real mast that rises vertically
from the rotator. Any number of methods of making this a rigid,
lasting mount can be employed and will not be presented here.


A TV matching transformer (300 ::75 ohm balun) should be fitted to the
antenna as is customary for coax feeds. Then use RG-6 satellite cable
from the other end of the matching transformer down to the scanner.
Use gold plated Type F connectors on each end of the coax. Down at
the scanner, use a gold plated Type F-to-BNC adapter to mate the coax
to the scanner. Voila! A low cost, high performance directional beam
antenna for your scanning post. Now here is why the sucker works:


Consider:


TV antennas for the USA are expressly designed as follows:


54 - 88 MHz Ch-2 - Ch-6 (34 MHz Passband)
88 - 108 MHz FM Broadcast (20 MHz Passband)
(Good for about 30 MHz to 158 MHz)
174 - 216 MHz Ch-7 - Ch-13 (42 MHz passband)
(Good for about 130 MHz to 324 MHz)
470 - 890 MHz Ch-14 - Ch-83 (420 MHz Passband)
(Good for about 352 to 1.3 GHz)


In order to get specified performance at the band edges, the
antenna has to be "overdesigned" by the mfgr, meaning that positive
gain and useful F/B ratio will be apparent well outside the bands of
design.....i.e., the TV bands.


Now let's look at the gaps in the above spectrum which include
desired scanner frequencies:

25 - 54 MHz (29 MHz gap)
108 - 174 MHz (66 MHz gap)
216 - 470 MHz (254 MHz gap)
890 - 1300 MHz (410 MHz gap)


Understanding that a wideband antenna will still perform with gain and
other specs within 1-octave of its design passband, it can be seen
that all of the above gaps are well within one octave of the
passbands. For instance....one-half an octave up from 216 MHz places
an edge at 324 MHz. One-half an octave down from 470 MHz places a
cutoff at 352 MHz. (I'm using half-octaves to be conservative even
though full octaves are valid).


Therefore, even in the widest gap of 216-470 MHz, there is ample
overlap coverage from the passbands of 174-216 and 470-890 MHz.
The worst coverage in the spectrum will be between 324-343 MHz,
but even there, it will be superior to that of a discone or any other
omni scanner antenna!


The simple conclusion, which can be empirically demonstrated with
minimal effort, is that a TV antenna will perform well above a discone
at 343 MHz, a point halfway in the gap of 216-470 MHz. It doesn't
matter that performance will be slightly down from the TV band specs,
because GAIN, F/B ratio, and side-lobes will still make the antenna a
superior performer to discones, dipoles, and even narrow band yagis,
and for that matter, log periodics which have low gain for their wide
bandwidth....typically 6-8 dB.


A TV antenna will be competitive with the log periodics even in the
gaps of its performance........and as a PLUS, will cost a LOT LESS.
More of a PLUS is that TV antennas are easier to install and maintain
than the larger, high profile log periodics. Finally, neighbors are
less likely to *****, whine, complain, and turn you in to some nasty
authority when all you have on the roof is an innocuous TV antenna,
even if it is mounted "all wrong". Neighbors will just think you are
stupid and leave you the hell alone.......which is what you want,
right?


(c) 1997 <All rights reserved> Bill Cheek
 

NC1

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The older TV antennas will probably not be an option, they are hardly low profile, or discreet, which is a requirement stated above.

If it is HOA restrictions limiting outdoor antennas, then I would suggest a slot antenna made from an old Dish Network or DirecTV parobolic antenna.
 

popnokick

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Today!s outdoor TV antennas come in many HOA-pleasing sizes and designs, such as the Winegard I cited above... And you seem to have missed. As Bill Cheek wrote, you need to pay attention to two things: polarization and frequency coverage. Both of those can be tricky to determine in the new designs for outdoor antennas.
 

RadioTowerMaster

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This Just May The Ticket

I'm looking for a low-profile and discreet outside antenna for my scanner. I currently have an old marine antenna mounted outside my house, but performance above VHF high is poor and gets even worse when going into the 700 MHz range. I saw the Magic Stick TV / PVC Antenna online and it seemed like it may be suitable (and was cheap enough). Does anyone have any experience with these? ************I wanted to break it open and see what's inside of it, but I don't want to damage it. Performance inside my house with it doesn't seem too bad.************

Hmmmmm, sounds like you already bought it, be that as it may you might want to upgrade to this little known but well thought of product:

Untitled

Untitled

Ventenna VT-27 2M/440 Dual Band Product Reviews





Good luck
 

popnokick

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Ventenna is good idea and worth looking at. HOWEVER it's a special order for 700 mHz and the OP mentioned 700 specifically. Wonder if a special single-freq Ventenna covers other bands? The implication is that it does not, but I couldn't tell for certain on their website.
 

NC1

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Today!s outdoor TV antennas come in many HOA-pleasing sizes and designs, such as the Winegard I cited above... And you seem to have missed.

I guess I was mistaken when you wrote: "and probably do not cover all of the frequencies you want... particularly 700 mHz. BUT OLDER TV ANTENNAS WILL".

By suggesting that older TV antennas will cover the frequencies needed, I thought you were suggesting he use an older antenna...... that covers those frequencies. I don't know how you decouple the chained thoughts in the same sentence when you bring up a problem, then mention a solution.

Also, the article was copyright 1995-1997, which was before digital TV, so it further solidified the "older antenna" assumption.

I know these HOA's very well. If your grass is 1/2 inch too high you will get a notice on your front door. Heaven forbid you have anything outside like an antenna, they send the compliance police, lol

This needs to be hidden or disguised very well. If it resembles an antenna, there will be a problem within a month or less and it will have to be removed. I'm only suggesting that it be done correctly from the beginning and not bring any unwanted attention from the HOA.
 

popnokick

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The entire sentence was in reference to the Magic Stick and 700 mHz, nothing else in that sentence. The OP wrote that he wanted a discreet OUTDOOR antenna, and that he had a VHF marine antenna currently mounted. Most of the modern outdoor TV antennas such as the Winegard and other saucer-shaped or panel omni antennas are far more discreet than the VHF marine whip. And as noted, the Ventenna is unrecognizable as an antenna (but may be limited if ordered for 700 mHz).
 

NC1

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There are many options for stealth / disguised antennas. The following page has a lot of links starting about half way down.

Just build it for the target frequencies (or band) and it will probably be better than those one-size-fits-all solutions. I make all my own antennas, and they perform just as good or better than the commercial grade. And I save a ton of money on top of it.

I would highly encourage experimenting with different designs that you make yourself, it is sometimes surprising what you figure out on your own.

WB0DGF Antenna Site - Stealth Ham Antennas, Links and Info
 

RadioTowerMaster

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Cue in the sound of a loud whistle....

Tweeeeeeeeeeet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey guys, while were ripping each other new ones, notice who's no longer here? Busy maybe? Either way methinks he has more then enough suggestions to make a well informed decision. If not let's leave him with this: The Antenna Farm, Your two way radio source

If 700 MHz +or- is his primary spectrum target, any antenna he chooses will have a very small footprint, they offer a wide selection, base, mobile, discrete, low profile, no profile, no ground plane needed, etc etc etc. It's all in there. All he has to do is pick one & do what needs doing, everybody enjoy your weekend.
 

Joseph11

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I've been reading and looking into everything mentioned. Thank you so much for all of the suggestions, everyone! It is much appreciated. :)
 

Joseph11

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I ended up trying this out because I had already bought it. Using some wood and mounting hardware from Home Depot and some RG-6/QS from RadioShack, this is my final product. VHF receive is diminished a bit, but UHF and 800 MHz receive is greatly improved. Less than ideal way of doing it, but the best way given the circumstances. So far, so good!
 

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kmi8dy

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I live in a hoa property, so i can't have anything like an antenna outside. So i started experimenting and what i ended up with was one of those flat thin digital tv antennas that you can put on the wall or tape it to a window. The best window to put it in would be facing the tower. I ended up with 4 of them. I bought them from amazon, you have 30 days to send it back if you dont like it. I put mine in windows, as far up in the window as you can. Make sure you dont have metalic bug screens covering the windows outside where you tape the antenna. If you live high up in a high rise, wow the reception your going to get will be crazy. The name of the antennas i bought was " i buyone " or real close to that. I bought the antenna ratted for 50 miles. I have a 996xt, 996p2, 396xt and a rs pro197. The as new in the box antenna give me about 3 bars on antenna strength, but with these other antennas i get 5 solid bars.
 

gewecke

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I ended up trying this out because I had already bought it. Using some wood and mounting hardware from Home Depot and some RG-6/QS from RadioShack, this is my final product. VHF receive is diminished a bit, but UHF and 800 MHz receive is greatly improved. Less than ideal way of doing it, but the best way given the circumstances. So far, so good!
WHAT is that attached at the end of the cable? 73, n9zas
 

popnokick

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Isn't that the low-profile, ultra discreet, amplified, Magic Stick PVC Antenna? Whatever it is it would benefit from being a few feet higher and clamped to the gutter... up away from the side of the house. And is that aluminum siding?
 
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