Making the most of whats left of the VHF/UHF bands

[K9KLC]

The St Paul repeater was the only one listed for some time on repeater book.

Even when I lived way closer to the river I was never able to actually hit that repeater in St. Paul. I was told once years ago it was pretty low profile but I can't say for sure myself.

220 was looked at as an odd ball band, even back in the 90's

Again, this varied from area to area and time to time in history. When I had my 220/440 linked system there were as many users on 220 as there were on UHF. A lot of users were old time Novice's that had 220 equipment when they weren't allowed to use UHF at that time. Yep, some even crystal stuff. We used some Midland 13-509's for linking back then, back from a couple of remote UHF sites we had over in St. Louis. Towards the end we linked to 224.14 in Greenville, IL.

The repeaters were 224.88 in Rolla, MO, 224.18 in Sullivan, MO and off and on 224.58 in Eldon. I had 224 48 in Collinsville, and also non linked was 224.700 at one point. It was nice coming up Interstate 44 and with only a couple small gaps having coverage from hear Joplin MO to almost Effingham, IL on 220 simply by changing channels.

 

[K9KLC]

I never said that repeater book was correct, just stated what it did have listed. I would love to see the 1.25m band start getting used more. The closest one I know of to me is St Paul. I am about 47 air miles away from there and unless that antenna is at least 100 feet in the air, I will never reach it as there is too much terrain in the way. I live in northern Montgomery County. I do know that repeater is pretty much linked full time to the Eolia 2m repeater now days.

I check into the weekly 2m net on the Eolia 2m repeater and a lot of people from St Charles County use the St Paul 1.25m repeater to check into the net. The Eolia 2m repeater is linked to the St Paul 1.25m repeater and also linked to the Paris Mo and Monroe City 2m repeaters.

My issue with all the tri band and quad band mobile radios is the output power on 1.25 compared to the output on 2m and 70cm. Now if Icom or Yaesu would offer a true 50 watt 1.25m mobile radio I would get one. I have read too many mixed reviews on the Alinco and TYT 50 watt 1.25m mobile radios.

Does anyone know what the output power level is suppose to be on the Kenwood TM-D750? I bet it will be like any other tri/quad band and have a low output power level.

Good to know St. Paul is still actually on the air, thanks for the info. I'll have to have a friend of mine check in from over that way. Yes, most the current crop of Tri-band mobiles are 5"ish" watts. My Kenwoods were from the 'Novice era' and only do 25 watts on 220, but that's what they were allowed back then. I have no problems hitting 6-7 repeaters from my QTH, at least on a good day.

I'd certainly hope, should Kenwood actually release that radio, they allow it more than the usual 5 watts. Like I said I'm 99.9% sure the price alone will make me not jump on it, but I'm sure others likely will.

I'm about 50 miles east of the 224.98 machine, on a good day I can still work it but the band needs to be up a little bit. Maybe if I had 50 watts vs 25 it would be a bit better but I don't honestly know. If that repeater was important to me I'd simply get a small 100 watt amp and go from there. (maybe I'll borrow a 50 and see if it honestly makes any difference I know someone that has one).

FWIW we had a neat opening on 220 yesterday, I was able to work two stations right at 90 miles to the north. A friend of mine with a much taller antenna got those guys plus a couple right at 100 miles. Was kind of interesting, was not able to work them on 2 meters or 70 cm, seemed to just be an opening around the 220 area.

 

[KF0NYL]

I need to check my current antennas to see if any have acceptable SWR on 1.25m or get another antenna just for that use. I do have one of the Wouxun KG-XS20H tri band radios which does 18 watts on 1.25m and 22 watts on 2m and 70cm. I forgot about even having it since it's not hooked up to an antenna right now.

I would really like a 50 watt 1.25m radio but am hesitant to buy the Alinco or TYT due to the mixed reviews.

I belong to the amateur radio club in Mexico Mo. We are blessed that we have our 2m and main 70cm repeaters on the KWWR backup tower. Our GMRS repeater is there too. The 2m/70cm antennas are at 900 feet while the GMRS antennas are at 400 feet. We get about an 80 mile coverage radius with the 2m repeater and around 30-35 mile radius with the 70cm and GMRS repeaters.

 

[K9KLC]

I would really like a 50 watt 1.25m radio but am hesitant to buy the Alinco or TYT due to the mixed reviews.

I have not run either one personally so this is what three people in my area told me that have run both. The TYT has killer transmit, loud audio and absolutely horrible receive. To that end, one guy was transmitting on the TYT then flipping a switch (he said) to receive on his Anytone 578. I do have the Anytone 578 and it seems ok to me on receive "IF" you have the squelch open. it's not too bad with the lowest squelch setting but still misses some of what my Kenwoods do receive. I know a ham that has the aftermarket amp geared towards the 578 and he does pretty well with it using the 5 out of the 578 into the amp. I'll say this, that 578 has likely the "strongest 5 watts" I've ever heard. Usually we can work simplex 20 or so miles between a few of us that have them. We do it "because we can" even though we have other radios for 220.

The older Alincos (DR-235) were good radios but again when they came out 25 watts was usually the deal on 1.25 meters to meet the old Novice requirements. The 3 people I know that have the new Alincos, seem to like them. One person had. problem with a new one (no transmit audio) and after some "discussion" with Alinco and trying this, that, and the other, they finally sent him a new radio. The other two user had no issues, and both seem to like them. I've worked them and the transmit audio sounds good, and they seem to receive pretty well. One is 44 miles away and we usually have no problems working simplex, so there's that. I don't know if anyone has checked the actual output on them. I may grab one of them and take it to a friends that has a working service monitor and we'll see what the specs are. My OLD Motorola is down at the moment and haven't seen the need to try and replace it since I a simply go to a friends and use his.

 

[AK9R]

Does anyone know what the output power level is suppose to be on the Kenwood TM-D750?

I assume Kenwood knows, but they aren't talking. Kenwood has shown non-functional mock-ups of the TM-D750 at three major amateur radio expositions (Tokyo Ham Fair, Orlando Hamcation, Dayton Hamvention), but has yet to show a fully functional radio. Kenwood has released what appears to be a future magazine ad for this radio that doesn't list power output. Kenwood claimed at Hamcation that the radio was "Coming in Summer 2025!" So far, there's no indication of FCC equipment authorization. Lots of folks are speculating about this radio, but hard info is sparse. Of course, several U.S. amateur radio dealers are taking reservations for the radio. I'm a Kenwood fan, some might say Kenwood fan-boy, but I'm not getting excited about this radio until I can actually buy one.

ETA: I wouldn't get all wrapped around the axle about 25 watts vs. 50 watts. That's a difference of about 3 dB which is less than 1 S unit. IOW, unless you are right at the edge of reception, 50 watts over 25 watts isn't going to make much difference.

 

[KF0NYL]

ETA: I wouldn't get all wrapped around the axle about 25 watts vs. 50 watts. That's a difference of about 3 dB which is less than 1 S unit. IOW, unless you are right at the edge of reception, 50 watts over 25 watts isn't going to make much difference.

I am on the edge of one or two 1.25m repeaters and the same goes for a couple GMRS repeaters. And the difference between 20 watts and 50 watts makes the difference on how clear I am heard on those GMRS repeaters. I need to connect the Wouxun KG-XS20H to the Comet 2x4SR on my SxS and see if I can reach the nearest 1.25m repeater or not.

 

[K9KLC]

I need to connect the Wouxun KG-XS20H to the Comet 2x4SR on my SxS and see if I can reach the nearest 1.25m repeater or not.

I'd try an "actual" 1.25 meter antenna. Even if it shows good SWR, its lobes will be all over the place and not a good test. I have GREAT SWR on 927.1 on my Comet CX-333 but can't talk but a mile or so on it. On my 900 antenna it's usually 15 miles to a mobile routinely, more if the mobile can crest a hill top, and 25-30 miles base to base to a similarly equipped station and with a slight opening a tad further out to about 50 miles.

 

[AK9R]

I'd look at antennas before I spent lots of effort looking for 50 watt radios on the 222 MHz band.

The Comet CA-2X4SR is not rated for the 222 MHz band. Something like the SBB-224 would be a better choice. And, the roof of a SxS does not provide much elevation unless you are parked at the top of a hill (and this time of the year in MO, the tops of most hills have lots of trees to attenuate your signal).

 

[K9KLC]

I'd look at antennas before I spent lots of effort looking for 50 watt radios on the 222 MHz band.

This, exactly this.

: I wouldn't get all wrapped around the axle about 25 watts vs. 50 watts. That's a difference of about 3 dB which is less than 1 S unit. IOW, unless you are right at the edge of reception, 50 watts over 25 watts isn't going to make much difference.

I agree which is why I still run my old Kenwood Tri-Banders. That and, I like hearing 3 things at one time. I think just for giggles and grins I'm going borrow that amp that does close to 50 watts from a friend of mine and see if it makes any difference on the one repeater that's right on my fringe.
I have a neighbor, a block and a half away, his antenna is about the same height as mine and he's not able to hear the repeater or hit it at his place with me listening, so I'm not sure what's up there. He has the 50 watt Alinco. Amazing what a difference a short distance can make. Even Inches at times from an HT or moving the vehicle up a foot or so.

 

[KF0NYL]

Yes I know the Comet 2x4SR is not meant to work on 220 MHz. That being said, it is worth a try since the SWR on 220 MHz is 1.8 or lower. I also realize that the SxS or even my 2010 F150 is not ideal due to the height of the antenna. But it would give me an idea on range with a mobile setup even if I just talk to others close to me on simplex.

The Comet 2x4SR is wide banded and covers everything from 2m, MURS, public safety, 70cm, and GMRS. Both of mine are also at 1.8 or less on 1.25m. The 2x4SR will either work or it won't. I'm not worried about burning up the finals since the SWR is below 2.0.

I have a MFJ 2389 multi band vertical with the base at about 24 feet above ground. I just tested it on 223.600 and 224.660, which is the in/out for the St Paul, Mo 1.25m repeater. The SWR is 1.3 at 223.600 and 1.5 at 224.660. I checked from 220 to 225 using my Rig Expert Stick Pro and the highest SWR across the band is 1.65. I am going to hook up the KG-XS20H and give it a try.

 

[AK9R]

That being said, it is worth a try since the SWR on 220 MHz is 1.8 or lower.

A dummy load will have a low SWR, but it won't radiate very well. Don't allow yourself to put too much emphasis on low SWR as it tells you nothing about how well an antenna radiates. SWR is only one measure of antenna system performance. An antenna with low SWR but poor radiation is not going to perform well. Since Comet only rates that antenna for 140-160 MHz and 435-465MHz I would not expect it to perform well on 222-225 MHz. But, as you say, it will either work or it won't.

 

[KF0NYL]

Yes I know there is more to it than just SWR. Everything looked good when testing with the Rig Expert Stick Pro on the 2x4SR and even better on the MFJ 2389. It's worth trying. I will try the MFJ 2389 first.

 

[kc2asb]

The older Alincos (DR-235) were good radios but again when they came out 25 watts was usually the deal on 1.25 meters to meet the old Novice requirements. The 3 people I know that have the new Alincos, seem to like them.

That was the radio I remember from back in the day. I came close to buying one a couple of times. I was able to hit repeaters about 30 miles away on 10 watts with the Memorizer. 25 watts would have been more than sufficient.

 

[YalekW]

Here in the US, the military still uses 30 MHz to 88 MHz. Amateur radio is secondary to the military and other government agencies. Plus the analog TV stations in that section too.

The older analog military radios had a low band and a high band. Low band was from 30 MHz to 50 MHz and high band was 51 MHz to 70 MHz.

We had to be really careful when teaching basic trainees how to use the PRC-77 radios. We had to keep them on the low band as the local TV stations were in the high band. We had a trainee key up one time on the high band and interfered with a local TV station. Needless to say we received a not so nice phone call from the TV station manager.

There was a discussion about giving 46 MHz and 49 MHz to GMRS over on the MYGMRS forum. Again those frequencies are allocated to military use. I know there were old wireless consumer products that worked on those frequencies but they were secondary.

And now we have a company wanting the 70cm band for commercial use. And not too long ago there was another company wanting a portion of the 900 MHz band that covers LORA/Meshtastic. Let's see if we lose 70cm and 900 MHz like we did with a portion of the 1.25m band.

We need to start using what bands we currently have before losing them. Adding new bands is not going to happen in my opinion.

I have honestly never heard any digital comms or any analog for military ops from 30 to 70.

 

[Spider255]

I know that the M.O.D handed a lot of there old frequencies back to Ofcom long ago over here... so I imagine its a similar situation in the US. There digital comms are most likely going to be UHF.

 

[nd5y]

I have honestly never heard any digital comms or any analog for military ops from 30 to 70.

Other people have heard analog FM military ops in the 30-88 MHz range. I collected a list of over 300 frequencies that were posted in the low band log threads over the years.

 

[kc2asb]

Other people have heard analog FM military ops in the 30-88 MHz range. I collected a list of over 300 frequencies that were posted in the low band log threads over the years.

I have. One of the most frequently heard stations is Ft. Hood Texas range control on 30.450. I've been hearing them since the early 1990's during band openings.

 

[vagrant]

Military FM analog use on 30-80 MHz is a definite thing here in California.

 

[Spider255]

It would kinda make sense the military using VHF Low Band 30-80 MHz as it travels well over open spaces like farm land etc. I doubt they still use it as it be analog and open to eavesdropping. I have seen some of there new kit which is digital looks to be UHF High Band plus satellite comms.

 

[YalekW]

I did find a signal that a signal hunter *did* find in the UAE: It sounds a LOT like securenet with a possible hint of KY57/58 mode mixing here too which I find crazy. 17067bps FSK - Signal Identification Wiki
He found it in the same bands that were discussing here of 30-80 Mhz.