Metro Net Frequency Changes?

[gabrielm]

Hi all:

I’ve heard a couple recent fires dispatched for Fullerton (through Metro Net), but they’re no longer running them on 2N or 2M. It was hard to hear the auto-dispatch voice, but it sounded like maybe they were using 2C? Does anyone know if this is a temporary change or what’s happening? I’m not sure if it’s affecting other Metro Net cities. Any intel appreciated.

 

[PacScan]

I have seen multiple people mentioning this recently. I sent a request over to ask about it, will follow up if they decide to get back to me.

 

[Markb]

All OC fire agencies are moving to a command and tac channel for fires and other significant incidents. OC and a few Metro cities have already started.
Incidents will start on the Charlie TG's (2C, 3C, 4C and 5C) and the tacs should still be on the November TG's.

 

[Engine104]

All OC fire agencies are moving to a command and tac channel for fires and other significant incidents. OC and a few Metro cities have already started.
Incidents will start on the Charlie TG's (2C, 3C, 4C and 5C) and the tacs should still be on the November TG's.

I'm assuming they will still be encrypted and only available on streaming with a time delay?

 

[gabrielm]

All OC fire agencies are moving to a command and tac channel for fires and other significant incidents. OC and a few Metro cities have already started.
Incidents will start on the Charlie TG's (2C, 3C, 4C and 5C) and the tacs should still be on the November TG's.

Currently, Fullerton is dispatching in 2C for command and 2O for tac. Neither of these are streamed, though. Do you know if they will be?

 

[Markb]

Currently, Fullerton is dispatching in 2C for command and 2O for tac. Neither of these are streamed, though. Do you know if they will be?

I do not.

 

[KR4BFV_motorola_guy]

I noticed too… this sucks

 

[gabrielm]

Update: I did speak to someone at Metronet. They said that the County (OCFA) is making changes to the fleetmap assignments. They said they were doing testing by shifting units to 2C, and the test phase is scheduled to wrap up this month. The actual permanent changes will happen later this year, and when they do, they said they are committed to ensuring that any new structure fire frequencies are added to Broadcastify. I hope that’s the case!

 

[Eng74]

Too bad when they update they just don’t turn the encryption off too.

 

[WD6ABC]

Ga

Update: I did speak to someone at Metronet. They said that the County (OCFA) is making changes to the fleetmap assignments. They said they were doing testing by shifting units to 2C, and the test phase is scheduled to wrap up this month. The actual permanent changes will happen later this year, and when they do, they said they are committed to ensuring that any new structure fire frequencies are added to Broadcastify. I hope that’s the case!

Can you ask them about turning off encryption for dispatch and none 'personnal information' channels!

 

[Robertolson]

It’s been confirmed by OCFA, that turning off Encryption, would require fingerprinting 1000’s Radios. even just for a few TG’s.

 

[PacScan]

It’s been confirmed by OCFA, that turning off Encryption, would require fingerprinting 1000’s Radios. even just for a few TG’s.

It has also been pointed out time and time again they have other options (i.e; patching enc to unenc TGs, slowly unencrypting during the annual radio updates by switching to toggleable vs strapped, etc).

There are plenty of options if they actually cared enough about un-encrypting but they don’t. Ultimately it’s OCSD’s system which explains why they never took any steps after promising to do so.

I am just happy they seem open to ensuring some channels are on Broadcastify at all…

 

[marcotor]

It has also been pointed out time and time again they have other options (i.e; patching enc to unenc TGs, slowly unencrypting during the annual radio updates by switching to toggleable vs strapped, etc).

There are plenty of options if they actually cared enough about un-encrypting but they don’t. Ultimately it’s OCSD’s system which explains why they never took any steps after promising to do so.

I am just happy they seem open to ensuring some channels are on Broadcastify at all…

Well, actully that sounds great in a scanner enthuisast vaccum, the reality is just a littlei bit different. Chief Fennessey asked about decrypting County Fire (only). Metro was never in the mix. Neither were the remaining independent cities. Sheriff's Radio presented the Chief with an estimate of $4 million dollars, as they would have to touch not "thousands" of radios but every radio on the system, which is north of 25,000 subscribers.

Now perhaps scanner enthuisasts know better how to decrypt a radio, I have read here it's merely "flipping a switch". Or "trivial to do". Or "lots of other ways" without any info on HOW. So maybe you experts on OCComms should offer your services. I believe CountyComms has several open positions at their new digs in Tustin.

 

[PacScan]

Well, actully that sounds great in a scanner enthuisast vaccum, the reality is just a littlei bit different. Chief Fennessey asked about decrypting County Fire (only). Metro was never in the mix. Neither were the remaining independent cities. Sheriff's Radio presented the Chief with an estimate of $4 million dollars, as they would have to touch not "thousands" of radios but every radio on the system, which is north of 25,000 subscribers.

Now perhaps scanner enthuisasts know better how to decrypt a radio, I have read here it's merely "flipping a switch". Or "trivial to do". Or "lots of other ways" without any info on HOW. So maybe you experts on OCComms should offer your services. I believe CountyComms has several open positions at their new digs in Tustin.

I have seen the patched TG method work well when I was liaising with an agency up north for a while. No radios needed to be un-encrypted and the traffic was just also sent to unencrypted channels. Was amazing for our mutual aid event dates. But I get no system is the same, and with how locked down OC’s system is, it’s probably a bit different. I did send that idea over to OCFA who then told me in short; they were not allowed to have anything to do with the radio system.

I am in no way an “expert” on these systems, but I do have some experience seeing ways to solve the issue without $4 million being spent. 🤷‍♂️

 

[Engine104]

I think it is fair to say that the OCSD is calling the shots. ICI started out in the clear, but then one by one, PDs (Pasadena, Glendale, Burbank, et al) went encrypted, while fire departments using the system stayed unencrypted. Again, though, as Pacscan pointed out, no system is the same.

 

[gabrielm]

Some (very rare) good news in OC scanning world. Major incidents for Metro Cities are back to being broadcast on 2N/3N in North OC and South OC, respectively. They are assigning the Oscar channels (2O/3O) as command channels, which are not streamed, but the majority of the traffic appears to be on the tac channels (2N/3N). I’m sure the oscars would be used for larger incidents. Happy to be able to listen to structure fires in Fullerton, Anaheim, Brea, Orange, etc. again.

 

[KR4BFV_motorola_guy]

Some (very rare) good news in OC scanning world. Major incidents for Metro Cities are back to being broadcast on 2N/3N in North OC and South OC, respectively. They are assigning the Oscar channels (2O/3O) as command channels, which are not streamed, but the majority of the traffic appears to be on the tac channels (2N/3N). I’m sure the oscars would be used for larger incidents. Happy to be able to listen to structure fires in Fullerton, Anaheim, Brea, Orange, etc. again.

Why would they use two channels for one incident? Where I’m from we only use one in very rare occasions on a very huge incident in rural areas where they have to lay 300 feet of line then they add another channel. But it seems confusing to have two channels in an incident because I would assume that would create lots of miscommunication.

 

[vavolff]

I think it is fair to say that the OCSD is calling the shots. ICI started out in the clear, but then one by one, PDs (Pasadena, Glendale, Burbank, et al) went encrypted, while fire departments using the system stayed unencrypted. Again, though, as Pacscan pointed out, no system is the same.

I read somewhere that the OC Undersheriff is in charge of the county systems, can't remember where I read that piece of information. I'll search it out to confirm my comment.

 

[Mikek]

The 800MHz CCCS is governed by a joint powers authority consisting of representatives from all member agencies. They’re the ones “in charge” of how the system is run and who can join as users. OCSD maintains and operates the system under the technology arm of the department (and largely, at the direction of the JPA). Technology, as with all other functions within the department, eventually rolls up to an assistant sheriff. Highly unlikely that the assistant sheriff has the day-to-day authority or ability to change things at a systemwide level or that affect non-OCSD-specific usage of the system.

 

[tsalmrsystemtech]

It’s been confirmed by OCFA, that turning off Encryption, would require fingerprinting 1000’s Radios. even just for a few TG’s.

I have had confirmed emails back in forth with Chief Finnesy which I am not sure if he is still fire chief. We all knew like 6 or 7 years ago now when they switched from their Motorola TYPE II system in Analog and switched over FDMA Trunking Phase I all fire radios were programmed with the old fleet map and the new fleetmap. The new fleet map were all strapped with AES-256 moving forward.

The chief at that time said he would turn off all the encryption on one of the social media sites and I would have to find it again or its way back in the thread that I posted.

I will tell you and I told the chief that OC has access to OTAP and OTAR. I guarantee they do not have to hand touch any radios at this point with technology. If they are all making these changes with METRO NET and making changes in 2026 The County of Orange is not hand touching radios anymore. I think The County of Orange between LE and FIRE have over 20K radios with portables and mobiles all together.

NO WAY THEY ARE HAND TOUCHING ALL RADIOS ANYMORE. With 5G and WIFI and newer Flash Feature sets its not happening. I even showed him diagrams of OTAP AND OTAR on what is being done and he said it was the safety issues after that church shooting I believe and that they did not have budget money to hand touch all FIRE radios.

Now if Radio Comms is so far behind in technology then there is a management issue in techology on why any department on a trunked system should ever hand touch a radio these days unless there is a major hardware issue or a radio has an old flashcode and the AES-256 just is not working correctly with their radio ID's.

Also, I said The County has reserved and paid call fire guys and RACES programs and volunteer programs and didn't care. Now you are starting to see just a bad decision to encrypt the FIRE departments and went accross the whole board and AES-256 strapped every talkgroup.

There is not one FIRE Department in The State of California that encrypts FIRE but they wanted everything to be quiet. I am pretty they will never look back unless its so cost effective that no hand touching and does not cost budget money. Who really knows as this has been so long now and the chief just lied to all of us. It was on Twitter on video of him saying all FIRE would be un encrypted and NOPE never happened.

Also, one last note and this is logical and will make sense to the average normal person. Okay if they wanted all strapping of AES-256 then they wanted encryption. Okay then we all get it and then no delay on broadcasting it on the internet. Now if you are streaming on the internet then the whole wide world can listen now in a delayed fashion. My point is now the whole world can listen online.

Take off all of AES-256 and no broadcasting online. I know there is some control issues that need to happen and turn off offical feeds necessary. Now you have what in the world like 7 billion people. I am not saying all would listen but the ability now for 7 billion people who have internet access can listen online.

Just my thoughts and had mutiple discussions and emails back and forth to the OCFA Chief about this but never happened. Probably retired now collecting a huge pension but they all pay into the fund and put his 30 years of service in and bye bye. Next Chief deal with this issue