'Rush to judgment' in deadly LA rail crash?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080914/ap_on_re_us/train_collision
Mike
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080914/ap_on_re_us/train_collision
Mike
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Metrolink Vs. another train
- Thread starter Eng74
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Teen reports texting with engineer minutes before crash
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/train-metrolink-engineer-2157127-angeles-one
Mike
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/train-metrolink-engineer-2157127-angeles-one
Mike
MCIAD
Member
I thought some of you might find these interesting. I was on my way to Oxnard along 5th Street (which parallels the U.P. RR tracks) and this was being moved toward the Oxnard rail yard, very slowly. The pics were taken with my Palm Treo, so I am sorry if the quality is not all that great. It is the freight locomotive involved in the crash . . .
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I'd wait for the real investigation too.....
Breaking out the tin foil, but if the train conductor was in the front of the train (pulling, not pushing) and he's dead, I'd bet whoever has the most to loose might resort to making any evidence they need to make sure the dead guy gets the blame (no matter how it really happened).
Breaking out the tin foil, but if the train conductor was in the front of the train (pulling, not pushing) and he's dead, I'd bet whoever has the most to loose might resort to making any evidence they need to make sure the dead guy gets the blame (no matter how it really happened).
caffman263
Member
I thought all Metrolink trains were pushed by the locomotive in the back. I remember reading about a previous accident vs a car on the tracks, and many people were saying that if the loco was in the front then the train wouldn't have de-railed in that incident.
It depends on which way it is going. They don't reset the trains when they get to the end of the run. They leave with the engine in front pulling the train, when they get to the return portion of the run then the engine runs in reverse and pushes the train
kd6ecz
Member
I rode the Metrolink train from Upland to Union Station in downtown L.A. and back for the first (and so far only) time back in January. The engine was in front pulling when we were westbound and it was behind the train pushing when it was traveling eastbound.
caffman263
Member
That makes sense. Did they say whether the engine was in front on this crash?
Edit: Yes it was.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-traincrash14-2008sep14-how-g,0,2269778.graphic
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-traincrash14-2008sep14-what-g,0,7379226.graphic
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Eng74
Member
The engine was at the front of the crash and the first car went around or through the engine. Watching it on the news friday night was almost like watching a drill. We have table topped drills for things like that and it seemed like everytime I would say they should be doing something the next thing you know that what they were doing. A real good job by the members of the LAFD.
karldotcom
Member
Metrolink board: blaming engineer was premature
Ron Roberts, the chairman of the board of directors for Metrolink, just read me this statement that he attributed to the Metrolink board:
"Metrolink staff has recently made comments regarding the possible cause of the September 12th, 2008, tragedy in Chatsworth. The National Transportation Safety Board has characterized these comments as premature and has ordered Metrolink to withhold further comments at this time pending investigation and we agree."
On Saturday, Metrolink spokesperson Denise Tyrrell told reporters that the engineer of the Metrolink train caused the crash by not obeying a track signal telling him to stop.
In an unusual move, the statement from the Metrolink board did not come through the agency's communications department, nor was a press release issued. Before speaking with Roberts, I called Francisco Oaxaca, a spokesman for Metrolink, and asked him about the expected statement. "It's something that the board chair is doing under his authority," he said, adding that Metrolink staff supports Roberts.
latimes.com....check it out
Ron Roberts, the chairman of the board of directors for Metrolink, just read me this statement that he attributed to the Metrolink board:
"Metrolink staff has recently made comments regarding the possible cause of the September 12th, 2008, tragedy in Chatsworth. The National Transportation Safety Board has characterized these comments as premature and has ordered Metrolink to withhold further comments at this time pending investigation and we agree."
On Saturday, Metrolink spokesperson Denise Tyrrell told reporters that the engineer of the Metrolink train caused the crash by not obeying a track signal telling him to stop.
In an unusual move, the statement from the Metrolink board did not come through the agency's communications department, nor was a press release issued. Before speaking with Roberts, I called Francisco Oaxaca, a spokesman for Metrolink, and asked him about the expected statement. "It's something that the board chair is doing under his authority," he said, adding that Metrolink staff supports Roberts.
latimes.com....check it out
Very sad... Was mostly listening to LAFD all Friday then mostly their Command channel yesterday. The crash was about a mile due north of my house. The Metrolink station is a few hundred yards from me. I was at work at the time of the crash. I'm glad I had my scanner with me, I was listening and watching on KABC's live web stream.
It surprises me that these types of things are still left in the hands of people. Why not automate these decisions with overrides by an onboard engineer.
It surprises me that these types of things are still left in the hands of people. Why not automate these decisions with overrides by an onboard engineer.
Because computers are not perfect either.
Where I work we have a system called automatic train control that would have at the very least saved lives, maybe prevented it all.
Without getting too in depth technically any time a train is running on colors (less than green, System goes Green, Flashing Yellow, Yellow, Red) the signals in the cab drop to restricting. The train may not travel more than restricted speed (able to stop within half the range of vision not exceeding 20 mph). If the train exceeded 23 mph the system would cause a penalty brake application. If the train is traveling more than 39 MPH when the cab signals drop, the engineer has 60 seconds to reduce to restricted speed or a penalty application. When the train is traveling at 40 or above and the cab signals drop, the engineer gets 6 seconds to apply the maximum amount of braking force short of emergency or a penalty application will occur.
karldotcom
Member
Metrolink's PR person quit after the board held an interview with the Wall Street Journal saying she had been premature in her announcement....she felt disrespected and quit.....then sent an email to all the media outlets saying the NTSB was an antiquated agency, etc.
I was listening to some of the signals testing today on 160.545, and while I hear all the signals worked as intended today, they could not read a handheld radio (like the Metrolink conductor has) from the Chatsworth area. Usually the locomotive with a more powerful mobile unit talks to the dispatcher, but there were some questions raised of why some conductor communications were not heard leading up to the accident.
I was listening to some of the signals testing today on 160.545, and while I hear all the signals worked as intended today, they could not read a handheld radio (like the Metrolink conductor has) from the Chatsworth area. Usually the locomotive with a more powerful mobile unit talks to the dispatcher, but there were some questions raised of why some conductor communications were not heard leading up to the accident.
rescuecomm
Member
Not being familiar with RR dispatching and routing, does the dispatcher confirm with the engineer about another train approaching on the same rail?
Bob
Bob
karldotcom
Member
I have listened to this section of Metrolink track for at least 12 years, and I have heard them tell trains about meets in this area all the time. Now that I think about it, it is probably the more experienced dispatchers I remember saying it. It is not a requirement though.
As a passenger train, you have priority on the rails and most times engineers or conductors want to know why they are being stopped....as it will affect their ontime performance.
This Metrolink train, was supposed to stay on double tracks short of the red light, and wait for the descending freight train coming down from the hills to arrive and switch onto the passing siding. For some reason, (according to the NTSBs press conferences) the Metrolink train left the station, got up to speed, passed the red signal (damaging the switch lined the other way) and went around a blind curve where it crashed into the freight train.
I still have a hard time believing an engineer with that much experience with Amtrak and Metrolink ran a red like that.
As a passenger train, you have priority on the rails and most times engineers or conductors want to know why they are being stopped....as it will affect their ontime performance.
This Metrolink train, was supposed to stay on double tracks short of the red light, and wait for the descending freight train coming down from the hills to arrive and switch onto the passing siding. For some reason, (according to the NTSBs press conferences) the Metrolink train left the station, got up to speed, passed the red signal (damaging the switch lined the other way) and went around a blind curve where it crashed into the freight train.
I still have a hard time believing an engineer with that much experience with Amtrak and Metrolink ran a red like that.
cousinkix1953
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Texting...
I have never understood this Crackberry fad. Most cellphone services include an answering machine that saves your messages. ISPs provided us with free e-mail accounts when we signed up for their service. Why do idiots pay 10 cents per word to type a silly text message? We would all be broke if they did that here.
Those who play with their Crackberries while driving should be punished for such stupidity. They'll never do it again if we cut off their fingers on the guilty hand. Stand by for another law because these brain dead people cannot control themselves. Of course those fines will put money into the state budget too...
I have never understood this Crackberry fad. Most cellphone services include an answering machine that saves your messages. ISPs provided us with free e-mail accounts when we signed up for their service. Why do idiots pay 10 cents per word to type a silly text message? We would all be broke if they did that here.
Those who play with their Crackberries while driving should be punished for such stupidity. They'll never do it again if we cut off their fingers on the guilty hand. Stand by for another law because these brain dead people cannot control themselves. Of course those fines will put money into the state budget too...
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