Microwave DX and the Pacific Question....

[SCPD]

After lunch, my friend said that if I provide the wine and stream'd the movie, she'd bring over Chinese and we'd watch it tonite--- but not to ask her any more questions about "Marigolds"... !.......
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....................CF
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.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLlGZQkU3ak
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[RFI-EMI-GUY]

After lunch, my friend said that if I provide the wine and stream'd the movie, she'd bring over Chinese and we'd watch it tonite--- but not to ask her any more questions about "Marigolds"... !.......
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.
....................CF
.
.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLlGZQkU3ak
.
.

Your going to need plenty of wine!

 

[SCPD]

I sort of skip'd over the comment you made, RFI, about your neighbor with the DoD and the use of the high ultra-violets in a scatter technique. This sounds a lot like what my side-kick did with her ionizing radiation- operating right on the frontier where things go into electron valence origin. Personally I find the physics of those netherworlds fascinating- where 'radio' stops and 'light' begins... and where Gamma's begin....
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Her bench work-up used pretty mild x-rays, in the 90-100kv range initially- and scaled up from there.
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And that's about it.... (smiles)
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I'm sure my friend and your neighbor could talk shop-- if they COULD talk shop....
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____________________________________
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Post movie night- yes that was a more-than-one bottle movie !
I had never seen it- or, let alone, heard of it until now. My friend Barbi, on the other hand saw the play when it was in New York years ago while she was working at Brookhaven.
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Here's a bit of true serendipitous twist--- not only had she *seen* the play, but she *work'd* on a project called "Marigold" -- the mission's name taken directly from that play. That's about she'll say- or will I atttempt.....
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I did ask her though, (kidding of course)---
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......."you were Matilda, right?........ "
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........................CF
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[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I sort of skip'd over the comment you made, RFI, about your neighbor with the DoD and the use of the high ultra-violets in a scatter technique. This sounds a lot like what my side-kick did with her ionizing radiation- operating right on the frontier where things go into electron valence origin. Personally I find the physics of those netherworlds fascinating- where 'radio' stops and 'light' begins... and where Gamma's begin....
.
Her bench work-up used pretty mild x-rays, in the 90-100kv range initially- and scaled up from there.
.
And that's about it.... (smiles)
.
.
I'm sure my friend and your neighbor could talk shop-- if they COULD talk shop....
.

.
____________________________________
.
Post movie night- yes that was a more-than-one bottle movie !
I had never seen it- or, let alone, heard of it until now. My friend Barbi, on the other hand saw the play when it was in New York years ago while she was working at Brookhaven.
.
Here's a bit of true serendipitous twist--- not only had she *seen* the play, but she *work'd* on a project called "Marigold" -- the mission's name taken directly from that play. That's about she'll say- or will I atttempt.....
.
I did ask her though, (kidding of course)---
.
......."you were Matilda, right?........ "
.
.
........................CF
.
.

The NSA computers just picked up the word Marigold on this thread about a dozen times and now there is this clicking on my phone!

It was tough getting my friend Dave to talk about his work, because I was told he would have to kill me if he said too much! What I gleaned was fascinating.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[SCPD]

(smiling)
We don't work on those sort of projects- we consult on them-- sometimes,-- and though everyone has plenty of clearances, nothing we do is (supposed) to be classified.
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We do work side by side with the DoD 'Brand X" boys a lot.... I know their formula- about the number of times one can inquire about things they "don't have a need to know."
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Exceed that number and you're sure to get a knock on your door....
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............................CF

 

[prcguy]

Speaking of V band, I have a pair of 1W, 53GHz frequency translators in the garage I need to test out. These were a military project from the 80s to take 30-76MHz military radios to 60GHz for short range covert comms but the prototypes I have were built at 53GHz for some reason.

When working you simply plug in your 2 to 70W, 30 to 76MHz military FM radio and you now have a channelized 53GHZ radio. The test and engineering data I have plus the magazine article with the exact units I have show them being used over a 10mi (or was it 10km) path using standard gain horn antennas and the signals were about 30dB above the noise floor.

I don't have a license that covers 53GHz but if I get these things working I doubt if anyone is going to complain about interference.

CQ, CQ V band.....
prcguy

I've attached two references dealing with absorption of microwave signals ... they delve into the subject probably deeper than most ever want to venture- but I throw it out for those that do.
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http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/686664.pdf
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http://irina.eas.gatech.edu/EAS8803_Fall2017/Petty_9.pdf
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_________________________________________________________
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Some of my 'children' have been V and W band radars- and I will be the first to admit they've proven quite an enigma. How well any propagation works on bands above 20 Ghz- I won't bet any money....
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Why did I post this?.. good question. Maybe to just voice my awe at how little is understood about the world of millimeter wave lengths....
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Oh, and to say to ZZ... (smiles )
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....that I will try and give a shot at the 3 CM Contest this weekend- even if it is to just talk across towne to my friend. Thanks for the heads up on the event.
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............................CF

 

[SCPD]

Hi PRC...
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53 Ghz's ? that's neat.... and I watt -- at 10 miles over a path close to the earth (planar) that might be its limite-- 10 Km's however is a very likely range. If it were beam'd at an elevation, the range would surprise you!
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And your trying it out?... no one is ever going to know it wasn't 60 Ghz's (I'd be the last one to rat you out... )
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Last year we tried V and W band out from the top of Pike's Peak- guests of the Army and their research station up there (btw, take the cog railway up- the drive up there was not for the faint of heart.... ie: I'll not do THAT again!)
Our range was unfortunately dismal due to the incredible amount of haze from all the Northern Pacific forest fires. This was not the sole purpose of the trip up; including V/W Band was a last minute thought.... this, to be continued at a later date.
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I know you don't need any warnings about looking into that horn when the transmitters are hot. We got the ok, however from our Bio Med people to try standing in the beam patterns of low power V band... eyes closed, backs to the horns. The warmth of their radiation was like a sun lamp.... and I assured (with the Medical dept's backing) everyone that this was all just skin effect heating. Science!
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I would certainly try out those units- for measuring frequencies at that range is difficult-- after all, its hard to not say to anyone that you weren't on 60 Ghz.....
.
.
..................CF

 

[prcguy]

I dug up the documentation for the "EHF applique" project and am looking at a spectrum analyzer plot over a 6.5mi distance where the signal is sticking out of the noise floor over 30dB using standard gain horns (10-15dB?). The analyzer RBW was 30Hz.

Looking at some of the specs it claims the internal HPA is an IMPATT diode amplifier that covers 50 to 75GHz at 1W with about 26dB of gain. What a nightmare that thing must be to tune.

I've tried them in the past with no success and since there are mil UG229 audio connectors in and out of the units. I might need to supply PTT switching or ??

The original design was intended to use 30-76MHz host radios with the final version accepting 30-400MHz. I assume I have the final version, so that would nice if they come to life some day. I need to read through all the dwgs to see if they need PTT or if they included RF sensing.

I'll move this up on my large things to do list.
prcguy

Hi PRC...
.
53 Ghz's ? that's neat.... and I watt -- at 10 miles over a path close to the earth (planar) that might be its limite-- 10 Km's however is a very likely range. If it were beam'd at an elevation, the range would surprise you!
.
And your trying it out?... no one is ever going to know it wasn't 60 Ghz's (I'd be the last one to rat you out... )
.
Last year we tried V and W band out from the top of Pike's Peak- guests of the Army and their research station up there (btw, take the cog railway up- the drive up there was not for the faint of heart.... ie: I'll not do THAT again!)
Our range was unfortunately dismal due to the incredible amount of haze from all the Northern Pacific forest fires. This was not the sole purpose of the trip up; including V/W Band was a last minute thought.... this, to be continued at a later date.
.
I know you don't need any warnings about looking into that horn when the transmitters are hot. We got the ok, however from our Bio Med people to try standing in the beam patterns of low power V band... eyes closed, backs to the horns. The warmth of their radiation was like a sun lamp.... and I assured (with the Medical dept's backing) everyone that this was all just skin effect heating. Science!
.
.
I would certainly try out those units- for measuring frequencies at that range is difficult-- after all, its hard to not say to anyone that you weren't on 60 Ghz.....
.
.
..................CF

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

I dug up the documentation for the "EHF applique" project and am looking at a spectrum analyzer plot over a 6.5mi distance where the signal is sticking out of the noise floor over 30dB using standard gain horns (10-15dB?). The analyzer RBW was 30Hz.

Looking at some of the specs it claims the internal HPA is an IMPATT diode amplifier that covers 50 to 75GHz at 1W with about 26dB of gain. What a nightmare that thing must be to tune.

I've tried them in the past with no success and since there are mil UG229 audio connectors in and out of the units. I might need to supply PTT switching or ??

The original design was intended to use 30-76MHz host radios with the final version accepting 30-400MHz. I assume I have the final version, so that would nice if they come to life some day. I need to read through all the dwgs to see if they need PTT or if they included RF sensing.

I'll move this up on my large things to do list.
prcguy

This explains why your 60 GHZ radio operates a bit lower in the band. 60GHz is a maximum atmospheric attenuation, the radios operate near that freq for low probability of intercept, but far enough below to establish a useable link budget. The article implies some frequency agility. Fascinating.



www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a226653.pdf

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[RFI-EMI-GUY]

.
I know you don't need any warnings about looking into that horn when the transmitters are hot. We got the ok, however from our Bio Med people to try standing in the beam patterns of low power V band... eyes closed, backs to the horns. The warmth of their radiation was like a sun lamp.... and I assured (with the Medical dept's backing) everyone that this was all just skin effect heating. Science!
.
.
.
..................CF

Trust us, we have lab coats and note books! If you start spitting up blood don't be concerned! Not that this should happen, but if it does, be sure to let us know!


Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[prcguy]

Page 37 in your link talks about my specific units and people who worked on the project said the prototypes were done at 53GHz away from the peak atmospheric attenuation to prove out the hardware. The final product would have been made for 60GHz for low probability of intercept.

If you can find the magazine article listed in your link it has pictures of my units in the lab and during field testing.
prcguy

This explains why your 60 GHZ radio operates a bit lower in the band. 60GHz is a maximum atmospheric attenuation, the radios operate near that freq for low probability of intercept, but far enough below to establish a useable link budget. The article implies some frequency agility. Fascinating.



www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a226653.pdf

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[zz0468]

...and am looking at a spectrum analyzer plot over a 6.5mi distance where the signal is sticking out of the noise floor over 30dB using standard gain horns (10-15dB?)...

...an IMPATT diode amplifier that covers 50 to 75GHz at 1W...

I wonder if they can be bumped down to 47 GHz and make them ham band legal.

There's a few guys doing 47 GHz moonbounce, I'm not sure what the terrestrial record currently is, but it's worth looking into.

 

[prcguy]

I would say no. The mixer and PA were a purchased assy and was absolutely cutting edge at that time and in my experience would barely meet spec across its advertised range. I should be able to test them again within the next few weeks and find out if they are still working.
prcguy

I wonder if they can be bumped down to 47 GHz and make them ham band legal.

There's a few guys doing 47 GHz moonbounce, I'm not sure what the terrestrial record currently is, but it's worth looking into.

 

[zz0468]

Either way, they sound like a neat toy to play with. You just won't be able to log any record contacts. But I don't think that will bother you too much.